At what point do I call social services?

[thisismeusernameything]

Posting for traffic. Sorry but I need a bit of advise from people with experience.

How much is it acceptable to shout at your kids? What language is deemed unnecessary and does the frequency matter?

My next door neighbour shouts at her very young children several times a day, maybe 5-10 times, for around a minute at a time.

They are fucking this and that's, cunts and every other name you can imagine. Is this ok? I often here the children crying.

I really dont know where the line is with this. The children seem ok dressed and look fine but its just the screaming and language used.

Is this a concern? Do I report it or do I mind my own business?

[Kitkatmonster]

It isn't up to you or any of us to determine if this is or isn't OK. That is the role of social services. If you are concerned, raise it. It is up to them what they do with your info and what action, if any, you take. I may be soft but reading what she's shouting at her kids just makes me want to cry.

[Kitkatmonster]

I meant what action they take, not you. Obviously.

[sunnyoutside]

My neighbour has been reported for using language like this (I started off reading your post assuming you were her NDN!) My neighbours DC are on child protection (or whatever it is called) and she is very honest about her behaviour. But she is struggling. She has asked me to report her before because she knows she needs help and support but is increasingly left to it. I spoke to her SW (with her permission) who then put it down as a neighbourly dispute with me(despite me telling SW I get on fine with neighbour and I am genuinely concerned about her). I would still go ahead and speak to ss.

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

The language can be a class issue. When I was working in a deprived area there were families who swore all the time. (There were others who didn't obviously!) Fucking cunt was almost a term of endearment. I think if you're not from that background then it's shocking to hear but it's not necessarily abusive.

[AppleSetsSail]

Oh dear OP. I think you should probably report. I'm sure this is a constant drain on your conscience, poor you. Poor kids.

[thisismeusernameything]

Thanks everyone. Yes she is my NDN Sunny.

I've done it. She's going to know its me as there is nobody at the other side. They did take my name and telephone number but that's all.

I'm not too worried about her complaining about me. I've had a client here before when she was having an outburst. He's a 50 year old man. Her language shocked him. My husband, father in law and landlord have all been here when she's been performing so there's plenty of people here to back me up if needed.

What they do now is entirely up to them.

[sunnyoutside]

Sorry I meant that reading your OP I thought you were my neighbours NDN. Glad you have spoken to SS - I know it feels shit but looking at it the other way, if I was struggling with my dc and needed intervention or support then I hope somebody would step in, not just for my dc (who of course come first) but for my own wellbeing too.

[APomInOz]

I hope it all works out.

[foodiefil]

This is 'emotional harm'. It's the third most common reason for removing children. After domestic violence and mental health.

[Perfectlypurple]

I reported similar once. Nothing changed and they would have been on ss radar due to police involvement at domestic incidents. I moved away and often wonder how those kids are.

[Yukduck]

Safeguarding is the responsibility of everyone regarding children (and the vulnerable). You need to report this.
The Summer holidays are looming so if she is stressed to the point of verbal abuse now just think what could happen if further stressors are felt by this mother.
I am guessing you would not wish to speak to her about her language - nor would I. Leave it to the professionals and report it.
You may find other neighbours or friends have done the same if things are as bad as you feel them to be.
And what Italian said above re anonymous reporting and how to act.

[Mooey89]

Social worker here.

We rely on all of these small reports from neighbours and the public who have 'low level' concerns. Put together they build a bigger picture.

Contact NSPCC if you feel more comfortable, Children's services can then make a decision as to how to respond as they may have other information.

[Yukduck]

Well done OP. Don't feel guilty. It is the lo's that matter.

[cleaty]

I think calling the NSPCC is good advice. They will have an idea of whether it should be reported or not.

[Mooey89]

Sorry, just RTFT and noticed that you have done it already.

Well done OP.

[sunnyoutside]

Perfectlypurple I agree that the op shouldn't assume anything will change. In the 12 months I have lived near my neighbour SS have received numerous calls about this family, nothing has happened. The spot checks, the weekly meetings - none of them have happened - and this for children already on Child Protection and very much on SS radar. I understand things take time but this family need help, and they need it now. Give it a couple of years like this and I honestly believe it will be too late for these children. Their mum, my neighbour, agrees.

[BayLeaves]

OP this sounds exactly like my old neighbour. We lived in a block of flats on quite a rough council estate and our bathroom backed onto their bathroom, the walls were thin so I could hear everything. I remember sitting in the bath hearing her shouting things like "You've used way too much fucking shampoo! I've fucking told you not to use that much. Fucking cunt!" This kid was only a toddler! I'd also hear slamming doors and children crying a lot.

I reported it to NSPCC and if I recall I think they said they'd pass the information on to Social Services.

I never found out exactly what happened to her and the kids, but she moved out and a lovely woman moved in and showed us around the flat, she'd started redecorating. She'd cleared up a lot of the mess by that point, but she said there was literally shit smeared on the walls when she first arrived. I could see dents in the wall where the abusive woman had been literally hitting the walls. Cupboards with dents and scratches inside where she'd shut the kids in the cupboard and they'd tried to get out.

Both her kids were pre-school age - so sad You dont' know exactly what happens behind closed doors so I would always report things like this - with my old neighbour I thought it was 'just' a bit of swearing and door slamming but it turns out the abuse was much worse.

[MatildaTheCat]

I very highly doubt you are the only person to have concerns about this woman. When I worked in this field it was all about building a picture. It was very unusual for a family to be flagged up at this stage for the first time, almost always the family was already known to the various agencies. If your NDN has such low boundaries that she calls her DC these awful names at home it is very probable that her parenting has other issues.

I'm shocked at people on this thread have said 'we all lose it with our DC sometimes.' I've never won any parenting awards but bloody hell, I've never, ever called a child or anyone else a fucking cunt. There are some things you just do not do.

Poor kids.

[Buzzardbird]

Poor children. Well done for phoning.

[Claraoswald36]

Please call. I would be heartbroken if anyone spoke to my kids like that and I'm a lone parent and I get a bit shouty sometimes.

[shinynewusername]

Those saying "oh maybe she's a struggling single mum, offer her a cup of tea" - fuck that. Whatever her problems are is no excuse for damaging these kids day in day out. FFS

This.

Well done OP.

[pasanda]

I'm glad you've done that. She is emotionally abusing them

[Nabootique]

Well done OP. Some PPs have mentioned that the swearing might not mean anything in itself, which I would agree with but the children are clearly distressed by her behaviour and that is the real issue. You have absolutely done the right thing. Someone rang SS anonymously for me when I was a child. SS didn't really do anything, but although I had an unpleasant time living with my mother, I'm not sure it really counts as abuse, and this was years and years ago when SS are not what they are today.

The whole thing makes me want to grab my DD out of school and give her a massive cuddle.