To be worried about a school trip to Belguim?

[Mummyme1987]

It's not Brussels but after this week, I'm worried. Am I being silly?

[mathanxiety]

There's probably a lot of 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted' syndrome going on security is always good in the wake of an attack, in other words. I would be more cautious about going somewhere outside of France or Belgium Copenhagen for example, or somewhere in the Netherlands.

[BoboChic]

I wouldn't go to Belgium right now. I live in Paris and we are on high alert and very conservative in our movements.

[dietstartsmonday]

My DD is there now. I waved her off at 6am on Tuesday by 8am the reports of bombs were coming in. I wanted them to turn round but the school took advice and felt it safe to continue.
They have done the war graves etc and will be in Bruges tomorrow. The school have withdrawn the free time there though. So the kids will be supervised.
I cannot wait for her to get home, I have been sick with worry. But she is having a lovely time she says.
I know how you feel. July is a way away

[dietstartsmonday]

Thank you. I know that really just some moments I forget. Roll on saturday

[lertgush]

An American friend asked me today if I thought it was safe for her 16yo to go to the UK on a school trip, as Europe is so unsafe right now...

[Mummyme1987]

Omg diet, I really feel for you. X

[BillSykesDog]

Well, yes actually. When we're talking about the recent wave of attacks in Europe they have all had links to Molenbeek. The Kouachi brothers were French but had strong links to Molenbeek radicals, the Paris attacks were planned and carried out by Molenbeek residents as were the recent Brussels attacks.

The OP asked the question. I'm being realistic. I wouldn't send a child (right now, July might be different) to an area a stones throw from a notorious terrorist hotspot which has all the hallmarks of an area attractive for an attack.

And, yes, I do think it's fine to voice a word of caution rather than just saying 'It's fine, everything will be okay'. Especially when Mumsnet has form for some posters declaring somewhere perfectly safe and there should be no worries about traveling there just a few months before it was hit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2335951-AIBU-to-not-allow-ExH-to-take-DC-to-Tunisia-next-month

[BillSykesDog]

Oh, and also to a country which appears at the moment to have entirely incompetent and incapable police and security services.

[Mistigri]

The comparison with travel to Tunisia is either uninformed or simply dishonest. The foreign office advises against all but essential travel to Tunisia.

[toomuchtooold]

My DH used to live in Brussels and I know Belgium fairly well, and I have to say that Zaventem airport is one of a few very esy targets there. It's a badly organised airport, lots of queues, and an excellent soft target. (The other thing out of Brussels that always worried me was the Eurostar, as there was no security at Lille where you could get on the Brussels-London train - was a few years ago though and I guest they must have improved it by now.)
Bruges is a small town and it gets crowded in summer - as Bill says there are some pinch points where it gets crowded... I don't know, I wouldn't think it was in any greater danger than anywhere else in Europe. I worry for Berlin, as Merkel's massive humanitarianism in letting in the refugees has probably made Germany a target of ISIS. And London, always London.

[gerispringer]

I'd be more worried about coach travel than terrorist attacks

[LittleLionMansMummy]

They had a risk/ statistics analyst on the radio yesterday. If said if he wants to keep his children safe he would advise them of three things: don't cross a road wearing earphones or texting; always wear a helmet when riding a bike; don't travel in a car where at least one of the other people in it is not over 25 years old. The events in Belgium were of course truly shocking and of course it makes us think twice about the safety of our children travelling abroad. But let's not kid ourselves this is a French/ Belgian problem. I have a huge amount of faith in the ability of our police and intelligence agencies to keep us generally very safe. But most politicians would agree that it's not a case of if but when an attack happens again on UK soil and the current threat level reflects that. Do we stop commuting to London, going to the theatre/ cinema or shopping at the Metro Centre/ Bull Ring/ Arndale centre or wherever? Terrorism is only terrorism because we allow it to dictate the way we run our lives, it thrives on its ability to create fear and suspicion among us.

[Ladycrazycat]

YANBU to worry, you would be unreasonable to stop your daughters going on their trips I think.

DH was in Belgium (Brussels and Bruge) and arrIved home Sunday night. I would be lying if I said it didn't sent a chill down my spine that it happened so soon after he came back, but then I work in a high target spot in London four days a week! So much in so many places would be a matter of wrong place, wrong time and it is difficult to judge. We just all have to try not to live our lives in fear (I say having got obsessively worried about my work around the time of the Paris attacks!).

[BillSykesDog]

Misti, you're being deliberately obtuse. I didn't directly compare traveling to Belgium to traveling to Tunisia. What I said was that your claim that Bruges was far enough away from where everything has happened lately to be safe was wrong, both in terms of geography and also in terms of the previous experience of Tunisia, eg Tunisia showed that terrorism will easily hop those sort of distances and in fact quite some distance further.

Plus, both when the Sousse attacks happened and when lots of Mumsnetters advised that Tunisia was perfectly safe, the FCO advice was pretty similar to the advice for Belgium now, there was no advice not to travel, just that there was a high risk of attacks and to be vigilant.

But to accuse me of dishonesty for pointing out that being a short drive away from trouble and in a nice area doesn't make somewhere safe and that the same logic has failed in the past is pretty unpleasant twisting TBH.

[gastropod]

Given the size of Belgium and Brussels' central location, practically everywhere in the country is within an hours' drive of Molenbeek.
(I go to Molenbeek every week by the way)

Anyway, at this point in time, with the current situation, I wouldn't be overly worried about a school trip to Bruges. I'd be happy to go to Bruges with my kids tomorrow.

You've plenty of time until the trip, so keep an eye on the news and you can always re-assess the situation nearer the date.

[Mummyme1987]

Thank you everyone, I'm going to keep my worries to myself and reassess in July. Wish ISIS didn't exist.

[Mummyme1987]

We live in a very rural area with no real targets, so I'm probably more jumpy than people who work or live near lots of people.

[Mistigri]

Given the size of Belgium and Brussels' central location, practically everywhere in the country is within an hours' drive of Molenbeek.

Yes that was my point. It's like suggesting that the risk level in (say) Cambridge is the same as in London. Plainly this isn't the case, although risk zero doesn't exist. Comparisons with Tunisia are at the very least disingenuous.

As others have pointed out, we tend to underestimate risk in some activities and overestimate it in others. The most dangerous thing about "going to Belgium by coach" is not "going to Belgium" but "by coach". (But it's a well-regulated UK coach and all the occupants will be made to wear their seat belts - which would make me sleep a lot easier if it were my kids. You Brits are a lot more sensible about this than people here in France).

Don't want to derail the thread but ... "let's not kid ourselves that this is a French/ Belgian problem" - it's not just a French/ Belgian problem but confrontational, aggressive and I am ashamed to say racist policing in these countries definitely doesn't help intelligence. I've seen often seen it suggested that the UK is protected more by relatively enlightened community policing than by the channel and I think there may be some truth in this. Let's hope budget cuts and rising xenophobia doesn't put this at risk.

[Squeegle]

mummy, I do understand exactly what you're feeling. But we do have to keep our fears in perspective if we can. There are 3500 people killed in UK accidents every year. That's almost 10 a day. But it's rarely on the news. Every day we encounter risks. And that is our life. We can't avoid stuff by staying at home.
That's not to say we shouldn't be sensible; and I'm like you, I do worry. But I do try to keep it in perspective. Even if we were in Brussels last week, the vast probability is that we wouldn't have been caught up in the attack.

[Squeegle]

Sorry I meant to say - in road accidents. Echoing misti's points re the levels of risk

[cantgonofurther]

My dd is going Paris with school and I am worried about letting her go but don't think I will stop her.

[PausingFlatly]

That thread linked by BillSykesDog isn't full of MNers declaring Tunisia "perfectly safe."

It's like this one: people saying nowhere can be guaranteed risk free and trying to decide where to draw the line. Many are Londoners.

[PausingFlatly]

Perfectly understandable to have a different perspective when you're from a rural area, Mummyme, and your main daily worry is road accidents and pedestrians on roads without pavements.