To be worried about a school trip to Belguim?

[Mummyme1987]

It's not Brussels but after this week, I'm worried. Am I being silly?

[nokidshere]

I might seem to be making light of it mummyme1987 but the concerns are real - but he is here In Front of me eyes shining and repacking for the 29th time. I'll stress when he's left ..

[Mistigri]

I hope the OP doesn't think we are poking fun at her concerns :( It's natural and normal, even if it's probably not rational, to be worried about trips right now.

nokids my DS was involved in a serious traffic accident about 3 metres from his best friend's front door step. It certainly changes how you view risk.

[scarednoob]

Tragically they've done brussels now. Lightening doesn't strike twice, or not that quickly. I am sure the trip will be fine.

I live and work in Central London and have nightmares about something happening here. I agree the feeling is "when not if", which is bonkers - how have we let things get to this stage - a series of disastrous policies on many levels.

I wish ISIS would just fuck off, the beardy warped sexist medieval hate filled evil toxic murdering cunts.

[nokidshere]

sigh so many things to worry about, none of which I can control.... Tea it is then....

The fact that the only accident he has ever had, he almost lost his life, was in our back garden with me close by is what stops me from going overboard and keeping him at home till he is at least 30!!!!

[Mistigri]

Skiing? Avalanche deaths, fatal head injuries etc...

Honestly, it's much safer to just stay at home with a nice cup of tea!

( actually it isn't. Many serious accidents occur in the home.)

[nokidshere]

The coach trip is definitely the bit that worries me most to be honest but, as you say, perspective is everything and the number of coaches travelling makes the number of accidents very low.

I shall be glad when he is on the side of a mountain in skis

[Mistigri]

The risk of becoming a victim of terrorism in Europe is really very low. There is a chart doing the rounds on FB atm, which shows how far European deaths from terrorism have fallen in the last 3-4 decades even including major atrocities like Paris and Brussels. People forget how many were killed by the IRA, ETA, plus various right and left wing groups and individuals in the past. We are probably as safe in public spaces in major European cities as we have ever been.

FWIW I think the risk may be slightly higher in Brussels or Paris than in London (because of a lack of effective community intelligence, due to aggressive and often racist policing) - but the risk for any individual person is so minuscule that the difference is difficult to quantify. But the OP's child isn't going to Brussels anyway.

After Paris, my daughter's school cancelled a trip to Toulouse. This did indeed reduce the risk to my daughter - not because she was at any measurable risk of terrorism, but because she avoided 200km in a French school bus on a motorway. There have been multiple deaths of young people in buses and coaches on French roads this year - at least 18 that I know of for certain (two local fatal accidents plus last night's crash that killed 12 in central France) and probably others too. Perspective is important.

[nokidshere]

One of my teens is off to Italy by coach tomorrow and will be doing the war graves/Bruges trip in June also by coach. The other is doing Vesuvius and Pompeii later in the year (flying).

I smile and plan with them, they are really looking forward to it. I am worried about the coach journey, worried about terrorism, worried about erupting volcanos, but i keep those worries to myself and will breathe a sigh of relief when they return safely.

It's hard when you are trusting them to other people and harder when so much bad stuff is in the news.

[BillSykesDog]

The risk outside of capital cities is fairly low. We're on a similar level of alert to terrorist attacks in the UK as they are in Belgium so it's a little like saying 'should DC avoid going to Cambridge right now?'.

It's not really. For a start, most countries are a lot less capital centric than us. And there have been ISIS/Islamist linked attacks recently in Marseille, a train between Paris and Amsterdam, near Lyon, Chatanooga, San Bernadino, Dijon, Tours, Melbourne, Burgas, Toulouse, Frankfurt, Boston, Grozny, Texas. None capital cities.

And I don't think the comparison to Cambridge really stands. We know we have effective security services here who are constantly foiling attacks before they happen. If, however, London had several on the run terrorists and police who seemed clueless about how to catch them I don't think I'd be rushing out for a day out in Cambridge or anywhere crowded either.

[tilliebob]

DS1 is going to a WW1 battlefields trip with school in June but it seems to be along the Belgian coast and a day in Bruges. DD will also be on a school trip to London at the same time. I'll just panic equally about them being out of my sight for a prolonged period, but I think London worries me more than Belgium.

if your DC go to the same high school in Fife you'll know who I am now

[stumblymonkey]

The risk outside of capital cities is fairly low. We're on a similar level of alert to terrorist attacks in the UK as they are in Belgium so it's a little like saying 'should DC avoid going to Cambridge right now?'.

We need to put the risk into perspective, our brains have massive cognitive bias when it comes to the threat of things like terrorism.

Every time you put your DC into a car they are at a far, far greater risk of death or injury than they are from the same caused by terrorism. The risk of something happening on the journey to and from Bruges is much greater than a terrorist attack while they are there.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

it is natural to worry, but remember that last week in Brussels, even in the airport, the vast majority of people were uninjured (traumatised - yes, but not injured) sometimes it can help fear if you can quantify the risk.
School will be having a good look at it themselves, after all, they don't want to be caught up in anything.

[Mummyme1987]

Off to google last eruption dates lol

[BillSykesDog]

Ahem. I didn't say it was full. I said there were 'some' Mumsnetters saying it was safe, lots saying YABU to worrying about going, and:

100 miles from Tunis seems ideal as it would be a long way from a) the capital b) areas where travel is not recommended...rationally it sounds pretty safe to me. Safer than France.

Quite a few other posts in the same vein. And a lot of the predictable 'oh but are you going to stop getting the tube, there's risk everywhere'.

Yes there is risk everywhere. But I prefer to take calculated risks. So I wouldn't bother going to countries that share porous borders with failed states full of terrorists, or countries with a problem with radicals combined with a shitty police force and an inability to catch known terrorists who are wandering around in public, chatting to the police, whose appearance is widely known and whose movements have been tracked on CCTV.

If people choose to go, fine, but I just don't understand why those same people object so strongly to others voicing a word of caution and saying the reasons they'd choose not to do so. People draw their lines in different places and have every right to do so and to consider the risks.

Anyway, OP, I think waiting until July and reassessing the situation is probably the best idea. Personally I would be looking to see if the Belgians actually managed to pull their socks up and actually arrest the bombers on the run this time. But if they didn't, no way. How can they be expected to catch and intercept people planning attacks when they can't even track people they know have already committed them, are identified and are on the run?

[Mummyme1987]

I had not even thought of the Volcano erupting! Thanks handsome! Lol

[DaphneWhitethigh]

The U.K. does not have 3,500 road deaths per year: that figure dates from the last century and now it has less than 2,000. Belgium and France are roughly twice as dangerous per mile or per person, so yes, going to Belgium by coach is always going to carry risks. Tell them to wear their seatbelts and be very careful crossing the roads.

[HandsomeGroomGiveHerRoom]

I would be more worried about Vesuvius than terrorism, in Pompeii. However I know very little about the likelihood of it erupting so ignore me!

Mine is off to Austria on a coach. I always worry when he's abroad on a coach. Pretty irrational, but I'm also nervous about the chairlifts

YABU and YANBU, anyway

[PausingFlatly]

Perfectly understandable to have a different perspective when you're from a rural area, Mummyme, and your main daily worry is road accidents and pedestrians on roads without pavements.

[PausingFlatly]

That thread linked by BillSykesDog isn't full of MNers declaring Tunisia "perfectly safe."

It's like this one: people saying nowhere can be guaranteed risk free and trying to decide where to draw the line. Many are Londoners.

[cantgonofurther]

My dd is going Paris with school and I am worried about letting her go but don't think I will stop her.

[Squeegle]

Sorry I meant to say - in road accidents. Echoing misti's points re the levels of risk

[Squeegle]

mummy, I do understand exactly what you're feeling. But we do have to keep our fears in perspective if we can. There are 3500 people killed in UK accidents every year. That's almost 10 a day. But it's rarely on the news. Every day we encounter risks. And that is our life. We can't avoid stuff by staying at home.
That's not to say we shouldn't be sensible; and I'm like you, I do worry. But I do try to keep it in perspective. Even if we were in Brussels last week, the vast probability is that we wouldn't have been caught up in the attack.

[Mistigri]

Given the size of Belgium and Brussels' central location, practically everywhere in the country is within an hours' drive of Molenbeek.

Yes that was my point. It's like suggesting that the risk level in (say) Cambridge is the same as in London. Plainly this isn't the case, although risk zero doesn't exist. Comparisons with Tunisia are at the very least disingenuous.

As others have pointed out, we tend to underestimate risk in some activities and overestimate it in others. The most dangerous thing about "going to Belgium by coach" is not "going to Belgium" but "by coach". (But it's a well-regulated UK coach and all the occupants will be made to wear their seat belts - which would make me sleep a lot easier if it were my kids. You Brits are a lot more sensible about this than people here in France).

Don't want to derail the thread but ... "let's not kid ourselves that this is a French/ Belgian problem" - it's not just a French/ Belgian problem but confrontational, aggressive and I am ashamed to say racist policing in these countries definitely doesn't help intelligence. I've seen often seen it suggested that the UK is protected more by relatively enlightened community policing than by the channel and I think there may be some truth in this. Let's hope budget cuts and rising xenophobia doesn't put this at risk.

[Mummyme1987]

We live in a very rural area with no real targets, so I'm probably more jumpy than people who work or live near lots of people.

[Mummyme1987]

Thank you everyone, I'm going to keep my worries to myself and reassess in July. Wish ISIS didn't exist.