That people don't seem bothered by the SNP blocking Sunday trading

[Twooter]

When we have it here in Scotland ( and always get caught out by the restricted hours when we go to England.

[angelos02]

Nurses, police etc are necessary on a Sunday. Shops are not. Also nurses etc basic pay is not minimum wage.

also for many people shopping is now a leisure activity I can't think of anything more tedious than shopping as anything other than a neccessity.

[megletthesecond]

The day I consider shopping a leisure activity is the day I give my head a bloody good wobble.

[Andrewofgg]

angelos02 I suggest you spend your leisure hours doing what you enjoy and let others spend theirs doing what they enjoy. It's not just the shopping itself; it's the visit to a shopping centre, a bit of shopping, a mooch and a meal out. All of which involves people working - as do most leisure activities.

I don't know how you spend your Sundays but it involves somebody in working. Even if you spend all day staring at the TV somebody still has to work to allow that.

And we could physically live without broadcasting on Sundays, couldn't we?

[StepAwayFromTheThesaurus]

Why is working in shops with large floor areas while the customers are in so special?

Loads of work for retail goes on all day (and night) long on Sundays. Just because the person on the tills might go home doesn't mean that everyone else goes home too. There is a huge operation to make sure that there is food to buy when the shop opens again on Monday morning. And why is it ok to work in a tesco metro at 10.30pm on a Sunday but not a tesco superstore?

Similarly, you don't hear people arguing that no one needs to eat fast food on a Sunday, or go to the pub, or eat Sunday dinner out because of the poor people who are at work not getting 'family time' on Sundays. I'm not sure that working in KFC on a Sunday evening is any different to working in Sainsburys.

The tories say they want a truly 7 day NHS, so that's not people treating emergencies and things that can't be prevented. That's just Sunday being a totally ordinary day of absolutely routine work. So a GP coming in to have a look at someone's mildly ingrown toenails (that could totally wait) or telling someone that it's just a cold is not only fine but important, but B&Q opening for more than 6 hours on a Sunday is a horrific imposition on family life.

The whole thing is so full of holes it's ridiculous. People just get all self-righteous and romantic about Sunday being special without giving it any real thought.

[Sixweekstowait]

Andrew - whilst we are still part of the UK everything this government does is the business of Scottish MPS. The reason I think this is that we all infected by the whole individualistic, mean spirited, poor bashing ethos that the Conservatives (since Thatcher) have embedded into our society. I can't be the only English person that is grateful to the SNP for helping to oppose this ridiculous extension of Sunday trading. Of course they've got their own agenda but WTAF do you think the Government's agenda was for extending trading? Just more people spending more money to give their tax avoiding friends more profits not to pay tax on.

[angelos02]

And we could physically live without broadcasting on Sundays, couldn't we? Obviously.

I generally have friends over to mine on Sundays to eat dinner and drink lots of wine. Food and drink bought during the week. Next shop, mid-week.

[AnthonyBlanche]

Does that apply even for devolved matters such as education Bourdic? I don't understand the attitude that says England can have no say over matters which are devolved to Scotland but Scottish MPs are free to interfere in, for eg, education in England.

[MyVisionsComeFromSoup]

when the Sunday trading laws were under discussion back in the late 80s I was working in a video rental store. We were supposed to get customers to sign a petition to relax the laws. The number of people who were in our store on a Sunday who refused point blank to sign as they "didn't agree with Sunday trading" and "didn't want people to be forced to work on a Sunday" was incredible, while they themselves were out shopping/renting on a Sunday, buying crisps and chocolate to have alongside their film, all of which required us to be working on a Sunday. Double standards or what!

[cleaty]

Hospitals are a totally different issue. Statistics show that if you are admitted at a weekend to hospital, you are more likely to die than if you are admitted during the week. This is not about treating ingrowing toenails, but giving proper medical treatment all of the time.

When I was admitted as an emergency late last year at a weekend, there was one consultant covering the whole hospital. My treatment was far less good than it was when Monday came around.

[Andrewofgg]

Bourdic EVEL has put an end to the idea that all Members are equal and a better thought out scheme for extending Sunday trading could have come under those rules and been passed. And a better thought-out scheme will.

The reason this one did not is that it improved the rights of retail workers who don't want to work on Sundays throughout the UK. A scheme which did not do that would have passed.

Angelos02 Do you cook or use the lights on Sunday? Do you use your car? Power stations don't work themselves!

And IME there is a strong correlation between the wish to keep retailers closed on Sunday to protect one lot of workers and the wish to have more and better public transport - late, early, and Sunday - which would invovle another lot of workers. Double standards indeed!

[angelos02]

Of course I use lights and cook too. They are modern-day necessities. Shopping is not.
I am not religious and am fortunate to have every weekend off so I have no personal reason to want retailers to close. I just think it is a shame that Sundays cannot afford most non-essential workers to have a day off...to, you know, have a life.

[Andrewofgg]

OK angelos02 Which of these would you close?


Small shops

Shops with no employees, run by the owner

Theatres and cinemas and concert halls

Broadcasting

Petrol stations

Public transport


Just wondering!

[DrDreReturns]

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, but in a secular society Sunday should be just the same as any other day. You can to the pub, restaurant, cinema etc on a Sunday evening, why are shops a special case? It doesn't make any sense! This is something the government shouldn't be involved in imo.

[SerenityReynolds]

Shops are already open for 6 hours on Sundays. That's ample time for anyone to do their shopping surely?

[angelos02]

andrewofgg

Just small shops

[Cornishclio]

Regardless of the merits or not of Sunday opening hours for retail I do not think the SNP were right to vote on a matter in England when they already have longer hours in Scotland anyway. Smacks of hypocrisy and obviously a political stunt to show they can defeat the government. The pay issue however is another matter.

My husband though works for a large engineering company on medical equipment and they moved to a 7 day week a few years ago in line with the NHS who are their main customers. He no longer gets increased pay rate for Sundays and they now have to do weekend working more often.

[howabout]

I think the SNP were correct to use their votes to interfere in this way. The current government habitually tacks on unpopular legislation as adjuncts to other matters to subvert parliamentary process. EVEL could and should have been used for a properly debated stand alone change.

The rights and wrongs of the issue are a separate matter to the systematic undermining of democracy which the SNP stood up against.

[StepAwayFromTheThesaurus]

But the SNP's stand also looks like it's undermining democracy, as do the defences based on 'if they hadn't then the MPs English people actually voted in might have been allowed to make the decision themselves'.

There are two issues here: whether the current Sunday trading laws are in any way sensible and whether the SNP should have voted at all. Even if you think that there's something special about letting customers shop in shops with large floor areas for more than 6 hours on a Sunday that sets them uniquely apart from shops with smaller floor areas, restaurants, fast food places, cinemas, theatres, leisure centres, and all the myriad other totally non-essential things that people can be asked to work in for more than 6 hours on a Sunday, that doesn't make it OK for the SNP to be maliciously interfering in English and Welsh legislation.

[RockUnit]

I'm pleased it has been blocked.

[boredofusername]

I'm confused about this whole thing. I thought we had the EVEL process now for English votes on English matters. But I assumed that because this was the Enterprise Act it applied to the whole of the UK (or GB) so the SNP had a vote. So the easiest way of getting it through would be to have a separate Sunday Trading Bill.

But now I see the EVEL procedure did apply to the Enterprise Bill. So why were the SNP able to block it at all? I am confused.

I would quite like more Sunday trading because it might force rail and bus companies to provide better transport on Sundays. And it would allow for more Saturday and Sunday jobs for sixth formers (although you still have to have managers in). I also think towns are safer when places are open. Sunday evenings at 4.30 in winter are really rather unpleasant.

I totally accept I'd feel differently if I worked in retail. I disliked working on Saturdays with a passion. Although I'd probably have disliked working on a Sunday less as it's not parkrunday.

[ThomasRichard]

I'm glad it's been blocked as I don't see why shops need to be open on a Sunday. Why can't there be one day where there's a break from endless consumerism and shop workers get a rest?

I'm not happy that it was the SNP blocked it though. It's got nothing to do with them.

[Sixweekstowait]

EVEL didn't apply to the Enterprise Bill because that bill began in the H of L before EVEL was enacted and it can't be applied retrospectively which is perfectly reasonable. The SNP played a political blinder - good for them. They won't get such an opportunity again. So really there's nothing now to get in a froth about in the future

[Andrewofgg]

No, EVEL did apply to some parts of the Bill. It started its progress after EVEL was passed.

After the big vote yesterday on Sunday trading those parts were approved without a Division by the Legislative Grand Committee - in this case all the Members from England or possibly England and Wales. One SNP Member tried to vote No but he could get no support even from the other SNP Members; if there had been a Division there votes would not have been counted.

Let's just have a short Bill giving traders and their customers in England and Wales the same freedom they have in Scotland and stop messing about. Or just in England which would be good news for the traders of Shrewsbury and Chester!

[specialsubject]

much of what's wrong with the UK is that shopping is considered a leisure activity. Stuck indoors wobbling round a shopping mall, wasting money..not good.

shopping is to buy what you need. We have late hours and online shopping, we don't need more.

but I am also annoyed at the one-way democracy from the scots. Saw them off and let them float away.

[starry0ne]

I know 2 people working in retail...The Sunday money is been cut to bring in the living wage...

Yes I support blocking it.. however I do disagree Sctoland vote on what is an English matter when it isn't reversed.