to think a 'day off for periods' is a damaging gimmick

[peaceoftheaction]

This company in the news giving women period days off. I mean ffs women have struggled for so long to get taken seriously in the workplace. I think the publicity about this does more harm than good.

[kali110]

I'm now on the fence. I take blood thinners so they are very heavy now, however the worse thing for me is i suffer with hormonal headaches. Few days before im on and a few during.
These are horrendous. I can barely stand as i'm so dizzy and the pain is worse than my mograines.

[kali110]

bettyberry isuffered a clot and i've always had migraines but my contraceptive hasn't made them worse. ( im having to come off it because of a blood condition) have you tried cerrezette?

[Fruu]

I think that the more major period issues should be classed as a disabilty, alongside any other chronic condition that makes it unusually hard to work without adjustments, and time off sick with associated symptoms should not be classed as normal sick leave for the purpose of disciplinaries etc.

I frequently flood and for the first two days of periods I have to routinely visit the toilet every half hour. The couple of days before periods (and during ovulation!) I get migraines with aura and overwhelming heartburn and vomiting. The nausea is so bad that sometimes I'm in a nonverbal, sweating, shaking heap on the floor for multiple hours, and I've honestly felt at times that it would be better to be dead than in so much pain. I've had people ask me if they should phone an ambulance because I get so obviously ill!

The NHS have been totally useless at helping with it; I've been trying to get it resolved for about 15 years now and been through loads of different GPs. I've spent my whole working life avoiding taking sick leave, coming in when I have things like the flu or have spent the entire night vomiting and have had no sleep, because I know that I'll need to take sick leave when the period issues hit. My sickness record, entirely due to my periods making me so ludicrously ill, has caused me to miss out on opportunities at work and probably contributed to me being made redundant from a job I loved.

It's ridiculous and incredibly sexist that menstrual issues aren't treated seriously by our society and that women who do suffer with major symptoms or have related health problems just have to struggle through and expect to face the possibility of being disciplined at work if they are physically incapable of overcoming their illness. Ignoring that some menstrual issues can be severely debilitating makes no more sense than ignoring that conditions like kidney stones or food poisoning can be severely debilitating.

[bananafish81]

Betty I agree entirely. I don't disagree with anything you have said - I guess it was more coming from a POV not about 'how can this not interfere with work' but more from thinking how excruciatingly awful the suffering sounded

I have chronic spinal pain due to a back injury and I know how much I wish I could make it go away. The only way I can deal with it is heavy painkillers (and at the moment as I am pregnant I can't take anything so I am on semi bed rest)

The question came from a place of 'Christ this sounds utterly debilitating is there anything you can do to alleviate the suffering'

I apologise sincerely if it came across as belittling or dismissive as it wasn't intended to be.

[ZenNudist]

Whilst I sympathise with the poor souks who have debilitating periods, I think the majority of women can soldier on period or not. I can't imagine ever telling my boss I am off work due to having my period. It's a bizarre idea.

[Lanark2]

I totally agree with this discussion being had more openly, and with it being a thing in workplaces. It would be fine with me. I already know that the most productive people are more productive if they can manage their work by balancing deadlines with energy. The levels of inconvenience and 'unwell feeling' )though I hate that term in this case) mentioned here is terrible, and to feel that should be ignored just because it's a 'woman's issue' is bad. Obviously not all jobs would work well with this, but many would be helped by allowing this to be an open topic.

[TheFormidableMrsC]

ZeNudist..that's unless you literally can't walk, can't stop throwing up, are having labour like contractions, crying with pain...I describe my daughter. I would expect her to "soldier on" under any circumstances...but this, this is entirely different.

[RitaVinTease]

I'm female and a feminist. I'm not a man, I dont want to be one. I welcome this idea.
I don't get why anyone would have a problem with it. Its not a 'weakness' any more than needing maternity leave.

Before having kids I used to pass out, and go into shock from pain or a sudden change in temperature. Those days I couldnt attend school or work safely.

[WahhHelpMe]

I'm assuming that this is aimed solely or with most focus on women ?

If so and you can have 1-2 days a month odd etc, I can see why it could be seen as negative, what about professions that have set times like teaching? Are women going to cover other women? Or are men expected to pick up the slack? And if so with salaried work, would they earn more/ women less?

I mean I could see how it could have its detractors 12-24 days some would take off and covered possibly by men with little chance of enhanced contribution being noticed as it's not something that can be rescheduled to help productivity. In that sense I do think it makes women look less capable

[WahhHelpMe]

Just further thought it's a logistical nightmare for somewhere like a school where teachers are all busy and can't cover, so say you have to hire a new member of staff or two as a lot of women are choosing to take these days off, well you need new teachers but if you hire women then that's possibly another 2-4 days you need to pay for more cover teachers to pay for cover for the cover you already needed it for, but you can't discriminate because of it.

Then you will have the few ( and I reiterate few) that decide they want a day or two off or to go in late and use that as an excuse not to go in, or someone who has (or pretends to have to go with the few that decide to abuse it) periods that are shorter cycles or sporadic and decide to have more time off? If employers suspect any wrong doing they can't exactly demand proof of your period (thankfully)

I'm not against it but it would be very hard to make sure it was fair and not abused either by women seeking in work or employers to discriminate against women for it

[Capricorn76]

If your periods are so bad they make you ill take a sick day.

[nevertakeyouriphoneinthebath]

I think if you are a woman who genuinely suffers terribly with her periods to the point where it's difficult to leave the house or concentrate on work then you should be able to show that you've consulted a gynaecologist and show any letters or reports that corroborate this to your employer and be given some leeway with sick leave to make allowances and not be penalised for taking short bursts of time off on a monthly basis.

And/or be given the option to work flexi time at certain times of the month.

I don't think giving a blanket day off to all female employees just because they menstruate is a good idea. It's patronising, it will cause many perfectly well women to take unfair advantage, it panders to the idea that we are all delicate flowers who can't cope in the workplace as well as men and it will be used as a reason to keep women out of certain jobs or promotions.

[claraschu]

I just think there shouldn't be anything embarrassing, humourous, or eye-rolly about periods. Women should be able to mention their period to their boss, or to the 12 men they supervise, without feeling even the slightest trace of shame.

[GreenRug]

The problem with saying women with debilitating periods should take this as sick leave is that many employers will have a policy on a certain number of these being Av trigger for a meeting about attendance, so we'd be putting ourselves in a vulnerable position.

I think the idea of being allowed to take period days but the time needs to made up, if administered properly is less damaging to women as it's ensuring that you're still doing your x hours per week/ month, so in some ways it's more comparable to the flexible working arrangements already offered to women and men.

I'm curious to see how it works out for the company doing it, how many women will actually use them etc.

[Katenka]

Imo if you have periods that bad that you need time off work, that should come under medical/sick leave.

Not every woman or even most women need several days off. A bit of flexibility, is great. Women taking extra days leave every month will put their career behind. Not because the workplace is sexist, but that's what naturally happens. It happens to men who work less hours too.

[Katenka]

i read the article earlier and it's about flexible working so time has to be made back.

See I think this is a good idea.

[Muskateersmummy]

In principle it sounds like a good idea. Like most things were flexible working is supposed to be considered, it's a good idea but in practice how will it actually work?

In some jobs it's easier than others, offer a work from home day for example but if like a teacher it's relatively limited hours how are you supposed to work that time back ? If your working 9-5 mon-Friday in an office job that doesn't operate at weekends, and you take a flexible day off once a month, where do you make that day up? I think you'll find in practice many companies will struggle to practically enable women to do this

[honeysucklejasmine]

My cycles are only 24 days so I would have to take loads of sick days. I am now SE and like others, I book my schedule around my cycle.

When I was a teacher, I did need to take days off every cycle. Sometimes this would be the weekend, or during school holidays, but certainly my sickness rate was far and above what was "allowed". Luckily HR were very understanding.

The majority of the time " off sick " I would sit at home and do admin tasks for my department from the sofa. I couldn't teach (or stand!), but I could still work in a useful way. That's what this is about. Adapting working patterns to ensure everyone can work in a productive way.

[Buckinbronco]

There is an assumption on here that any company who would sign up to this would allow unlimited "flexibility" in the name of periods.


They would not. They would be managed in exactly the same why you're complaining about sick leave being managed. Period flexibility would absolutely be abused in the same was sick leave is, and there would be management around that to prevent this happening. It's not a "I'm off for 3 days a month because I am unlucky enough to have crippling endometriosis and it doesn't count against me as sick leave thank goodness"- no. You'll be viewed in exactly the same way as someone who had 3 days sick leave a month and it would be dealt with. Only this time it would be dealt with by tracking your periods, being forced to explain to managers why you don't neatly fit into a 28 day cycle, being referred to health providers and encouraged to have medication or surgery you may not want in the guise of giving you options to resolve your high levels of period absence.

[PrettyBrightFireflies]

You'll be viewed in exactly the same way as someone who had 3 days sick leave a month and it would be dealt with

The article I read implied it wouldn't be 'spontaneous' like sick leave is; on the contrary, 'period leave' would be negotiated and planned in advance, unpaid, and not part of a woman's normal working month. Instead of working 9-5 every weekday, or a 4-4-2 shift pattern, employers could adapt and flex their staffing schedules and work patterns to ensure that when staff are at work, they are delivering at their maximum capacity.

It's not designed to address the medical issues that have been discussed here; it is aimed at ensuring that employees are being paid to work for their employer at the times they are most productive.

It wouldn't suit all roles, just as other forms of flexible working doesn't - but, there are plenty of roles in which it would work well, both frontline, and office based.

[MrsJayy]

Least this company is recognising that some women need a bit of flexibility during the month it might not work some women may abuse it but for the women who need it then it is a good thing imo.

[Trills]

I like Fruu's idea of having horrendous periods being treated, if not necessarily as a disability, as an ongoing health problem.

If I have a long-term health problem, my work would acknowledge that I might regularly need time off for it. It would not start counting "you've had 3 separate instances of sick leave", they would all be counted as one related incident.

I am very much in favour of flexible working policies being implemented.

I am also in favour of more openness about how debilitating periods can be.

I just don't think that labelling a flexible working policy as being "for periods" is helpful.

[CallousAndStrange]

Having a period =/= sickness. It is a natural process for half of the population of the world. So it should not be taken as sick leave, as this implies something 'abnormal'. Being male is often seen as the default and therefore anything outside that is not normal. As far as I can make out, this company is simply using flexible working hours which will allow women to work round their periods if they wish, therefore treating it as a normal part of life that needs accounting for. I think it's brilliant.

[StealthPolarBear]

" you should be able to get sick note that allows you to take time off without it affecting your job security."
I don't think that is really possible. Ultimately if your sickness is so extreme you cannot do the job you will be dismissed.
I agree that severe period issues should be treated like any other long term condition or disability. The (I assume) majority of women do not have debilitating periods, and can continue as normal.

[Buckinbronco]

But the same people who have horrific periods will be the ones who don't follow a 28 day cycle to plan in advance. Our bodies don't respond in the same way every month. You couldn't pre plan your period leave could you? That makes no sense. Even my periods, which are regular as clockwork affect me differently each month, and last differing numbers of days.