My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

AIBU?

to think a 'day off for periods' is a damaging gimmick

175 replies

peaceoftheaction · 02/03/2016 20:01

This company in the news giving women period days off. I mean ffs women have struggled for so long to get taken seriously in the workplace. I think the publicity about this does more harm than good.

OP posts:
Report
EatDickShrek · 06/03/2016 14:56

I basically see this as a 'if your illness comes from womb ownership, your not entitled to standard sick pay and must make the time up' hideously misogynistic policy. How about fostering a workplace environment that was more accepting of long-term conditions in general and that many people do need semi regular time off. Trying to keep work when you have any recurring condition like endo or migraines is awful!

Report
BoffinMum · 06/03/2016 10:46

(FWIW I informed my university given the staffing demographic that was largely skewed towards women between 40-60, they should have an official gynae on site just like there was a university dentist and medical practice and they just laughed at me).

Report
BoffinMum · 06/03/2016 10:43

I note now men do more housework the cleaning products are being reformulated to make the whole process less effort and to allow for procrastination and inefficiency in doing laundry, for example. In the US soap powder is being redeveloped so you don't have to divide washing into colour piles and so it will get stains out that have been sitting there for weeks. What mugs we must have been not to develop these products by women, for women, to lift the yoke off the domestic labourer. I wonder if we should just think up our own period policy on here instead. Mine would start with free, immediate access to a gynaecologist at all times for anyone wth a spot of bother downstairs. What would everyone else do?

Report
BoffinMum · 06/03/2016 10:41

Two thoughts - I remember having the most crippling period pain during a couple of my A Level written exam papers in the 1980s and basically bombed the exams grade wise as a consequence. Looking back the pain was similar to fairly advanced first stage labour and it was completely unreasonable that I should have been required to sit behind a desk and take life-changing examinations whist feeling like that, simply because medical science at the time had decided not to bother researching it and coming up with a reasonable way of allowing teenagers to manage the pain properly. It doesn't get more sexist than that. We were just expected to get on with it. Ridiculous, looking back.

Another thought. I think coming up with the ability to take random days off is nothing new - some firms used to call this a bisque day, or short-notice leave to attend to personal concerns. I think the problem is labelling periods as something that will need a lot of bisque days and by extension assuming every woman of child-bearing age is a risky proposition. This can and does still happen in the workplace in terms of wondering whether women (and only women) will need maternity leave, or parental leave to attend to children, particularly in small departments and businesses. And I have been on the brunt end of that. So I would be happier if there was legislation around short notice leave for personal concerns for everyone. But ultimately you are legislating for something that is just good management anyway. Then again, after the experience of working with someone who tool a 5 minute fag break every hour and three days a month off with supposed period pain and heavy flow because she 'didn't want to take medication for it as this would poison her body' sometimes it can be annoying if people are playing the system and I seriously doubt most workplaces would have a mechanism for establishing if someone was taking the mickey. After all, are you going to sit down a colleague and grill her about something so intimate? And a GP would just write whatever she told them to.

It's complicated.

Report
Braeburns · 04/03/2016 05:57

I believe we should be encouraging flexible working for all (where possible as some occupations it is more difficult). However if the job isn't offering flexibility then it should be taken as sick leave.

There is still a very negative attitude in some areas and 'period leave' will be used to discriminate against women.

Thankfully this idiot was fired after his comments but this is what we deal with:
www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/women-earn-less-due-to-periods--ema-boss-2011062312#axzz4009TKaHk

Report
Atenco · 04/03/2016 03:57

I think it is very sad that women are still expected to act like as if they were men. We are different, we are women. If men had periods, the entire workplace would have been organised to accommodate their monthly cycles from the very start.

We are not stupider than men, obviously, and we are often much more responsible. We are not programmed for housework, but we ARE different.

Report
ProfessorBranestawm · 04/03/2016 01:49

I think I'm in favour of this. I've not really looked into it as I'm about to lose my job through ill health anyway.

Interestingly though my chronic illness symptoms (mostly muscle/joint pain but also dizziness, fatigue and brain fog) get much worse on day 2 of my period, even though the periods themselves aren't particularly bad anymore (since having my 2nd baby they've been much better). So to be able to work around that would be good - I have to do that in my home life anyway, e.g. I know tomorrow is day 2 so I've planned a very easy day and won't expect much of myself.

As for the ins and outs of sick leave/flexible working etc I don't know. But I think that anything that makes it easier for women to take time off if needed due to periods would be great. There can be a lot of "but it's only a period" and I can imagine it might be very hard to bring up the subject if you have a boss who has that attitude. So this could sort of open up the subject a bit and make it less taboo, I guess. Again, relating to my chronic illness, it's become a lot easier since my managers really started to understand it, because if I was unwell and needed to stay home or change my timetable to avoid certain tasks, I could just tell them that I was having a flare up, rather than having to go into huge detail etc.

Report
EBearhug · 04/03/2016 01:09

I can't decide on this. It would work better in the companies where it probably already is less of an issue; I can work from home sometimes, and I and my male colleagues have all done this, including when we are feeling off-colour. In fact, the men have probably done this more than I have. We also don't have to work an exact 9-5 day, as long as we do our contracted hours or more each week.

But our job doesn't involve serving customers at the till or teaching a class full of children, or nursing patients in a hospital ward - some jobs you have to be present for to be able to do it. Flexibility and making the time up won't necessarily work - you can't teach Wednesday's 2pm class next Monday instead, because everyone will be in a different class at that point.

A couple of weeks ago, I did trigger the Bradford factor at work, because I've had 5 sick days in a rolling 12 months. One of those days was for bad period pains, but work doesn't know that - I just reported upset stomach and headache (which was true, it's just it was because of menstruation rather than a virus or bacterial infection or whatever.) I mostly do cope with my periods, with the help of tranexamic acid, and I also have a GP who says, "no woman in this day and age should have to have her life interrupted by periods!" - but not everyone has such an enlightened GP, and plenty of GPs still expect women to put up with period pain, even severe pain, because that's just part of being a woman.

When I was in my 20s, I just didn't believe that periods could be that bad, because mine weren't, and we didn't have messageboards to enlighten me otherwise back then. The only conversations I ever really had about periods were of the "have you started yet?" type, never about how heavy or not they were, what counted as heavy or anything. (Looking back, I'm not quite sure how this happened, given I was at a single-sex secondary school, but it's possible I just concentrated more on things like learning verb tables and everyone else was talking about it.) As I've got older, it's actually been a surprise to me that how my menstrual cycle manifests itself has changed so much over the years. They're a lot heavier and more painful now I'm in my 40s, but I am also far more aware of when I'm ovulating. Plus places like mumsnet has meant I've heard from a lot more women whose experiences are different, and I realise that it really can vary from something that's not really much to think about to vomiting and fainting and needing to stay within close access of the loo all day because of having to change protection so often (that bit's me these days.) And when it's bad, it is really difficult to function properly at work, if at all.

If you do get really bad periods, then I would have thought it count as a chronic condition that would be covered by the Equality Act, and I do think that menstrual problems should have some sort of exemption like that, or pregnancy-related illness, when it comes to tracking absences. But I don't see how you could plan it in advance - some people are very regular, but not everyone is, and just going by my own experience, some months are just uncomfortable, and others have been far worse, to the point where I have taken a day off - but I never know ahead of time whether it's going to be a good month or a bad month, and I don't think that's unusual.

But I do also recognise that there's great potential for prejudice against women with this sort of thing. There are still employers who think women taking maternity leave aren't dedicated to their job (and men who take paternity, going by the reaction to a Swedish colleague.) There are employers who are currently saying they can't afford to pay men paternity leave rates what they offer for maternity leave, now there is the right to shared parental leave. There would be plenty who would say they can't afford to deal with menstrual leave or flexibility. And even if there were legal measures to enforce it - well, there are plenty of employers who avoid employing women of childbearing age, and pregnant women don't seem to be less at risk of losing their job, regardless of what the law might say. The prejudice is already there.

But bad periods do happen, and women can't always just grit their teeth and work through, and I think it would be better if this was more accepted in work places. I also think talking more openly about periods at work would be a good thing, making it more normal. I don't think I have ever talked about periods at work, though I have openly carried tampons through the office. Only some of this is because I have spent most of my working life in male-dominated workplaces - even when I've been working with women, I've never discussed periods, not even in terms of "have you got a spare pad I could have?"

Report
bettyberry · 03/03/2016 20:30

bananafish81 I didn't take it as such just musing that Often contraceptives to mask the problem are suggested when they are not the ideal solution. That expected to perform in the way men do often isnt a solution either.

Report
PrettyBrightFireflies · 03/03/2016 20:26

I'm aware of that, moving, and all my PP have highlighted that this initiative won't work for all women and isn't designed to address the medical conditions associated with our cycles.

Yes, I generalised when I said that women aren't useless one week a month.... Is that what are objecting to?

Report
MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 03/03/2016 20:21

You talk about women as if we are all the same PrettyBrightFireFlies. We are not.

Report
PrettyBrightFireflies · 03/03/2016 20:18

Women spent many decades arguing against the notion that they were useless one week a month; now some of them want to argue they are .... useless one week a month.

If those women had spent less time arguing that they were the same as men, and more time arguing that they were equal, but different, then this wouldn't be necessary now.

We are not 'useless' one week a month, but it can't be denied that our bodies operate on a cycle. Rather than ignore it, we should harness it!

Report
MurielKlein · 03/03/2016 19:57

Women spent many decades arguing against the notion that they were useless one week a month; now some of them want to argue they are .... useless one week a month. This is so backward it makes me want to scream

Report
StealthPolarBear · 03/03/2016 12:53

Yes I agree. There is a myth that if sickness is genuine you can't be dismissed.

Report
MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 03/03/2016 12:45

I agree with you op. I think it's a nonsense and very damaging for women in the workplace.



BUT what would be really brilliant is if workplaces were so well run and had such a supportive culture that people could work flexibly and be trusted to do so, so that it doesn't matter whether you need flexible arrangements for elderly care, a disability, childcare, social or voluntary obligations or for awful periods.

I don't like women being singled out for special treatment because that allows women to be treated differently and it's almost always detrimental (even if it absolutely shouldn't be). We see this already with pregnancy and maternity discrimination. The only way to make things easier for one group is to stop making it about that group and make it a perks for everyone. So in this case the perk is flexible working. Well that should be available for all.

Report
shovetheholly · 03/03/2016 12:35

I always post this on period threads, so everyone's probably sick of hearing it, but:

  • you can take a couple of drugs, tranexamic acid and mefenamic acid, to reduce flow. Ask your GP!
  • you can take ibuprofen and paracetamol together at full dose for a couple of days to help with the pain. However you should NOT take ibuprofen in addition to mefenamic acid.
  • Cocodamol is brilliant!
  • Oilatum is great for dealing with skin irritation if you are having to change tampons and towels often.
  • M&S granny pants with modal (the super-soft ones) are an unsexy friend.
  • the NICE guidelines recognise the toll that heavy bleeding takes on quality of life. Unfortunately, many GPs do not follow these very well. There are interventions to investigate and deal with some of the things that can cause bleeding, but in many cases, sadly, you have to fight for them very hard indeed.
  • In terms of treatments, the Mirena coil works miraculously well for some women and not at all for others.
  • If you have fibroids, there are now some quick and very low intervention day surgical methods for getting rid of these!
  • We need to campaign for change because it is ridiculous that more research and treatment isn't available.
Report
BeautyQueenFromMars · 03/03/2016 11:51

If I took a day or two off sick every month because of my period, not only would I be spoken to about my sickness levels, I'd lose pay and have an horrendous sick record (12-24 days a year, plus any times I may be ill with D&V or migraine or whatever) to show to any future potential employers.

I am very lucky currently, as I am able to work from home, so the first couple of days of my cycle I can spread my hours across the whole day, in between throwing up and changing sanitary wear every 30 minutes.

Report
boredofusername · 03/03/2016 11:45

The problem with saying women with debilitating periods should take this as sick leave is that many employers will have a policy on a certain number of these being Av trigger for a meeting about attendance, so we'd be putting ourselves in a vulnerable position.

So maybe the answer is to say that you take sick leave, but sick leave for disabilities or chronic conditions may not count towards triggers for disciplinary proceedings, or for points towards redundancy. So if for example the trigger is 5 days in the last 6 months, your period-related absence does not count. However, I don't think you can stop capability proceedings - ie not disciplinary, but you are not capable of doing the job because you miss a week per month. Ultimately if you need to be in work (eg school, shop, hospital) and you can't because of your awful periods, it may be that you need another job.

That said, flexible/home working is definitely one answer to this or working part-time but doing a certain number of days a month as opposed to specified days each week and you can fit them in around your horrible period. So if you are a teacher you could do supply or job-share, but on a flexible basis where you change your days around where needed. It shouldn't be that hard. If you are a surgeon I guess you've some idea when your periods are going to happen so you don't book operations for those weeks - but I don't know what you do if you have very irregular periods!

Report
shovetheholly · 03/03/2016 11:33

I do wonder if this would lead to people being more serious about the horrendous problems many women suffer with blood loss (flooding) and pain. The lack of attention and research in this area is woeful.

Report
PrettyBrightFireflies · 03/03/2016 11:27

You couldn't pre plan your period leave could you?

Some can. I do - through my SE.

This isn't a solution for every woman and arguably, isn't for the benefit of women so much as for the employer - by implementing this some female employees will have their least productive days in their own time rather than their employers time.

Report
thetemptationofchocolate · 03/03/2016 11:25

I'm not sure about this at all.
I used to have a terrible time each month, and I had awful trouble getting the doctor to take it seriously. He didn't refer me to a gynaecologist until I told him that my sick record was triggering an Occupational Health investigation. If my days off hadn't been counted as sick leave I doubt he would have done anything and I'd have gone on suffering.
I do see that this was more an issue with the doctor. Hopefully he is now retired and no longer making women suffer for longer than they need to.

Report
bananafish81 · 03/03/2016 11:21

Biology is crap. It is the most inefficient system imaginable. I never knew when I would get a period as I was so irregular so ended up going on the pill aged 17 even though I wasn't yet having sex, so I could make sure I didn't have a period during my A-levels. I didn't and don't have particularly problematic periods so can only imagine how awful a really debilitating period must be at any time, let alone at a really crucial and time sensitive time.

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

christinarossetti · 03/03/2016 11:12

I've often said to dh that if men had periods capitalism would be structured around a 3 week working month, no questions asked. He suggests that men would have weeks blocked out in red in their online calendars Grin.

Totally agree with organisations treating heavy/painful/debilitating periods as a disability so in accordance with the Equality Act.

Also, agree that flexible and responsive working will be productive for companies and employees alike. I know that I'm less clear-headed, less creative and less productive the day or so before my period, and it would make complete sense for me to factor this into my working pattern.

Report
Buckinbronco · 03/03/2016 11:04

Prettybrightfireflies post implied period "leave" would be pre planned and agreed, NOT spontaneous like sick leave

Report
Movingonmymind · 03/03/2016 10:59

So like a typical long term condition, unpredictable, should be treated as such when it's this bad.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.