What happened to the thread where kids hadn't been picked up?

[Shouldknowbetter2015]

This is the first chance I've had to check since this morning & i can't find it. Hoping there was a happy ending???

[MissHooliesCardigan]

Thanks slowly and thick sorry, that sounds really insulting! I don't want to derail the whole thread and make it about me. But I do get really fucked off when. at any mention of alcohol problems, people with no experience whatsoever, pile in with 'go to AA', get to a meeting tomorrow' etc. I'm an alcoholic and AA didn't help. I'm also a mental health nurse and know quite a few people who work in addictions. Their view is generally that AA works amazingly for about 30% of alcoholics. Which is fantastic. I have a close friend who credits AA with saving her life. Knowing how fucking hard it is, I'm not going to knock anything that works for anyone. My issue with AA is that so many people believe that AA is all there is and it's just not true. I couldn't get on with AA because I had what I'm only just beginning to realise was a religiously abusive upbringing. Therefore, I am simply never going to connect with any organisation that bangs on about God, even if it's not actually God.
There are numerous other ways to get support to stop drinking- SMART recovery groups (which is what's working for me - you get all the group support without the God stuff,) CBT, numerous websites, sober blogs, new medications- Baclofen which is usually used in cerebral palsy but has been found in high doses to completely block receptors which cause craving for alcohol. AA is not not the only way.

[Slowlygettingthehangofthings]

Lady- what a load of nonsense! Of course she made a sober choice to go to the pub rather than collect her children. Having a problem with alcohol doesn't absolve a parent of their responsibility towards their children.
And I've met a fair few alcohol and drug dependent people in my time.

Miss - I wish you all the best

[oldlaundbooth]

OMG, my post was deleted.

Sorry MH HQ

[MissHooliesCardigan]

LadyStoic I would class myself as a functioning alcoholic. If I posted how much I drink, I imagine most people would be horrified and have an image of a bag lady on a park bench with a can of Kestrel in a paper bag. I actually own my own home, hold down a very responsible job and have 3 children who are confident, happy and doing well at school. I have hidden bottles round the house, I have topped up bottles of gin with water so DH doesn't think it's gone down, I have drunk vodka from a mug so people think it's tea. So far, so pathetic but I never have and never will abandon my children with a virtual stranger to go to the pub.
The 'disease' model is one model of addiction. A lot of people who work in addictions don't buy into the whole disease thing. I have been to AA and it made me worse because it convinced me that I was powerless over alcohol. I know AA helps a lot of people but there are also millions of people who go a couple of times and never go back but they just tend not to be very vocal.
I don't think I have a disease, I think I have a problematic behaviour which has crept up with on me over many years so I am now trying to deal with it in a problem solving way and it seems to be working.
I have always seen my drinking as my responsibility.

[BillSykesDog]

I think if you are not turning up to collect your children then you are not, by definition, a functioning alcoholic.

You seem to have a very rose tinted view of addiction LadyStoic. There is still personal choice in addiction. And when you have small children every time you make the choice (and it IS a choice) to relapse you are choosing to put alcohol above your children.

I am fairly certain that the overwhelming majority of NA or AA meetings would be far less mealy mouthed and empathetic towards someone in active addiction abandoning their kids than you are.

[LadyStoicIsBack]

'What is wrong with some of the posters on here - of course the woman should be judged!!! And very harshly too. Alcoholic or not, she made a sober choice to visit the pub over collecting her DC,'

I wonder if folks who post anything along the lines of the above, or those who call an woman who isn't even on here to defend herself 'disgusting', actually have any fucking clue whatsoever about addiction?

I am going to speak at a more macro level (given we do not actually know for sure that his woman is an alcoholic) and point a few facts - FACTS - out.

1: Alcoholic or not, she made a sober choice to visit the pub over collecting her DC - Again, I am NOT referring to the Mum in question as WE DO NOT KNOW HER, but I can assert very clearly that if someone is a alcoholic and in active addiction, then there genuinely is very little 'choice' involved by the time they hit the point where they start dicking around their (much loved) kids as by definition, THAT is where the disease of addiction is already winning

2: Alcoholic or not, she made a sober choice to visit the pub over collecting her DC - Again, I am NOT referring to the Mum in question as WE DO NOT KNOW HER, but I can assert very clearly that if someone is a alcoholic and in active RECOVERY (IE is XYZ days clean and sober) and they go to a pub to pick up again; then that relapse (relapse is what it's called when someone in recovery picks up again, be that alcohol or drugs - alcohol ironically being the biggest drug of the lot of the) ^BEGAN* a long time before she went into the pub and ordered the drink.

Relapse starts when the mental obsession takes over again, and whilst it's only a matter of time before they drink again (unless they hit a meeting or call a sponsor or something) as there are various further declines along the way, it really IS just pure BS to write anything like 'she made a sober choice to visit the pub over....' As by it's very definition, of course she didn't.

3: Alcoholism is way more common that it wouldns like some of you realise (comments like 'well she held down a job' etc). Many many alcoholics in active addiction are what is called a 'functioning alcoholic', and no, the image of someone on a park bench drinking a can of Stellar is so fucking wide of the mark that it;s just unreal.

4: Some AA (& NA too) meetings are 'open' - meaning ANYONE can attend them. I would genuinely suggest that a few folks on here go to a cpl of meetings before they carry on spouting some of the ill-informed and bilious stuff that has been posted here.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I agree slowly, if it was not disgusting, abandoning your child, what was it! Yes she may have underlying issues, she probably has to do what she did, but that does not make an excuse for her behaviour. Those poor children, and what they were feeling. If I remember from that thread, the little one, was scared and frightened.

[Slowlygettingthehangofthings]

Actually Aeroflotgirl I don't see anything wrong with your use of the word disgusting. I was disgusted when I read the about the poor OPs worry and then heard that the "mother" had been in the pub. No genuine emergency, no incapacitating health problem, just chose to go to the pub and not answer her phone.

[ZanyMobster]

I would have said the same if it was a man, the alcoholics sadly involved in my life are a mixture. None of us actually know anything about this situation to judge at all.

Yes I would absolutely judge if either a mother or a father just abandoned the kids but we really don't know anything at all. My nan wasn't an alcoholic or mentally ill but did this sort of thing just because she was selfish and wanted too. My close friend has a mental illness and alcoholism and is not in control of her actions at all time.

There are some very narrow minded people on here but I actually think that's a good thing as it is horrific to have any involvement with someone with these sorts of issues so I wish I had no understanding of it.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Well what would you call that behaviour gooseberry: irresponsible, reckless, neglect! Yes those descriptions are more factual, then disgusting I suppose.

[gooseberryroolz]

If an op were to write that about her husband or partner, that he abandoned the kids at a playdate, and went boozing down the pub, there would be a lot of: leave the bastard, and what a manchild, think about leaving him etc. There would be very little sympathy, double standards.

Yes they might suggest leaving, seeking interim custody, arranging rehab, various things to a parent of either sex, in a similar situation, quite reasonably.

That is NOT the same as language like 'disgusting' etc.

And it's not the same as pillorying a particular parent who isn't here.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I agree, there are a lot of assumptions about the mum and her health that we don't know, she could be an alcoholic, at the same time, she might not. Even as an alcoholic, she has responsibilities as a mother and as an adult, and to seek help. If an op were to write that about her husband or partner, that he abandoned the kids at a playdate, and went boozing down the pub, there would be a lot of: leave the bastard, and what a manchild, think about leaving him etc. There would be very little sympathy, double standards.

The husband of the woman should sit her down, and have a very serious talk with her. He should also help her to get professional help, and it would be a long while, until I trust her alone with the kids again, she would have to prove that she she is getting help, attend parenting classes, and sober and responsible.

[whatsthatcomingoverthehill]

I find the speculation about this particular case very distasteful. No one on here knows the ins and outs, and it is not helpful to pontificate much about it.

General discussion about alcoholism, in particular in relation to parents, and how it can be dealt with is different.

[turkeylovessprout]

^^ yup

[Slowlygettingthehangofthings]

I hate the expression " I got carried away". It implies that the wrongdoer was simply passive in the situation and so should be absolved of responsibility for their actions.

[BillSykesDog]

The Mum was drunk. The description the OP used was she had 'gone for a drink after work and got carried away'. That's being drunk, not seeking out support from a friend for a MH crisis.

I agree completely with you Aero, had it been a man who'd done this he would be unremittingly flamed. Not praised for abandoning them with a sitter rather than all on their own, or given sympathy for their 'issues'.

Alcoholism is very sad. But when you have children if you choose not to deal with it you are choosing alcohol over your children every time you have a drink. Lots of people do give up.

[Slowlygettingthehangofthings]

What is wrong with some of the posters on here - of course the woman should be judged!!! And very harshly too. Alcoholic or not, she made a sober choice to visit the pub over collecting her DC, knowing full well that their father was away on business. The sexism on this thread os appalling. If a man had behaved in this way he would (quite rightly) be called every name under the sun. This woman doesn't need "help"- she needs a long hard look in the mirror. And as for the posters who have suggested that the father was in any way to blame, kindly go give your heads a wobble!

[ZanyMobster]

I feel sorry for all of them based on the small amount of information we have.

If the mother is an alcoholic it is not a knowingly selfish act, it is a serious illness and she would need help. It feels selfish, I have been on the receiving end but deep down I always knew they couldn't help it.

If she is not and just fancied going to get pissed and leaving her kids at a friends that of course is a totally different scenario. I would have little sympathy with the mum of course in this case.

We cannot possibly hand out blame with what we know now.

[Blu]

AlasAlas God forbid we have entered an age where any woman in a pub must justify her child care to her companions, and that we must all feel responsible if we do not police our friends. If I am out at night with friends I assume their kids are at home with a patent or babysitter or in a sleepover. I don't ask or check!

As for the comment about people filling up the thread to ask for an update, one poster even implicated that it was rude / inconsiderate not to update because of all the posters who were 'in suspense ' . Yup, 'in suspense'. Nothing to be done about it, People are, after all, generally using social media as a leisure activity. But it is as well to be aware of this context. Especially when threads in Relationships get treated like a drama with the demands of a fast developing plot line rather than someone's real life.

[myname2016]

:) might be a bit much goose but when I have the time ...

People do to to AIBU because of the traffic.

[Aeroflotgirl]

She certainly would not go to AIBU, would she!

[gooseberryroolz]

Please do feel free to prepare a forensic report of my posts between 4am and 7am yesterday and email it to me 2016