As grammar is being discussed, this is the new Yr 6 SPAG test

[katmanwho]

AIBU to use Google to answer half of them!!

Good luck

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/439299/Sample_ks2_EnglishGPS_paper1_questions.pdf

katman yes a diagnosis would be needed. Even then is upsets me hugely that children who are amazing writers would be limited to 'expected' due to handwriting.

UndramaticPause if your dyslexia affects your spelling you likely would have struggled to 'pass' this test and be made to 'resit' it in y7. The feeling of failure at such a young age does irreversible damage.

I must add I am not an ott parent, DDs have agreed to do it in return for not walking the dog I'm just generally interested in how the difference in teaching is affecting both of them. I'm also incredibly sad for DD2 who is a late August baby with extra memory issues being set up for what feels like a massive fail.

Yes the black boxes should contain the questions, not sure why they don't. If you search '2016 sample sats papers' the mark scheme will be there drivenmecrazy

Yes very much the case that current children in y6 only began new curriculum last year but are being tested as though they have had it all along. We are having to seriously play catch up. I am a y6 teacher.

*Today 10:49 BoboChic

Children need to have mastered the level of grammar tested in the link in the OP before embarking on the study of MFL.*

No, they don't "need" to have "mastered" this level of grammar. A foundation is useful but is not a necessary pre-requisite.

I have to be honest we had been led to believe this year's y6 cohort would be the last taking the old paper so I can see parents at school may be more than a bit shocked that it's not.

Yes, instructions are definitely missing.

All of the 'well the 11+ is harder' comments honestly make me feel like there is a serious level of naivety about what goes on in most classrooms.

Of course the 11+ is harder, it's meant to identify the most academically able children, that's the POINT. The SPaG test is meant to be the expected standard for ALL children, children who are SEN, children with memory issues, children who arrived in the country with no English, children who come to school with no breakfast and uncared for, it doesn't matter. Apparently our main priority for all of these children needs to be to make sure they know the different between a subordinating and coordinating conjunction.

If you want to ensure a rigorous education, would it not be better to test knowledge they might actually USE?

I have a string of A*s at GCSE, As at A-Level (one of which being English) and a first class degree, and I only learnt a lot of these terms when I had to teach them to ten year olds. It didn't effect me. They don't need to know it.

So people are seeing

Pluto now called a dwarf planet, but once it ___ classified

as a planet.

Without seeing a question

Now that's interesting - you could give that sentence and then see what a child does with it. Much more useful..

Affect (which interestingly isn't covered under the spag)

I don't dispute the usefulness of this knowledge, though. It is really very helpful for languages etc as well as to understand good English writing.

But what I hate is the test and the teaching to the test. It has taken over Year 5 and 6 so that upper primary, rather than being a great time for students to explore creative ideas in science or gain new knowledge about modern art, is all about trudging week after week through the test knowledge.

I also hate the idea that you have to know it by Year 6- why? As someone else said, it's actually more similar to what was done in the first couple of years in secondary, esp grammar schools. I don't understand why this is essential knowledge at this stage.

Failure, scores, exams, tests, it's all awful even for the very clever kids. What it is like for the ones who simply can't get this stuff, I have no idea. I don't object to monthly assessment tests by the teachers themselves, on all kinds of stuff. I object to narrowly focused, formulaic tests which will not increase genuine learning (who says you have to put an exclamation mark in a certain place, ffs, I write for a living and I sprinkle them where I choose!)

You're missing the point of the reference to the 11+, it's showing this stuff and more is being taught out to children.

If we're being pedantic, Between, you need to get rid of that "of which" or change "being" to "is"

It's only grammar IMO. As you say, it matters, but not so much as to worry about getting it wrong on a chat forum (as long as people make enough of an effort to be polite), or torture little kids with subordinating conjunctions.

I know Undeamatic, I'm the one teaching it!! This week alone I'm doing an hour on relative clauses and another on determiners. Would you not rather your children spent this time doing something else though? Why do they need to know the term 'relative clause' and 'relative pronoun' at 11?

This week alone I'm doing an hour on relative clauses and another on determiners. Would you not rather your children spent this time doing something else though

Children at this age want to learn. Governments have been told that y6 is a waste of educational time. So many useful things to learn - I wonder what schools who aren't bound by this test focus on in this year?

Doesn't it make thing easier in secondary school if they do? (Genuinely wondering, no idea yet what goes on in secondary school)

If anyone would like to have a go at some of the questions, there is a quiz here made up of ten of them:

www.sats2016.co.uk/think-youd-pass-your-sats-in-2016/

There are 19 questions that I couldn't answer as I don't understand the terms. Grammar in school was nouns, verbs, adjectives, commas, full stops, question marks and apostrophes.

Pronouns, adverbs, clauses, modal verb, conjunction, preposition, active voice, past progressive, subjunctive form, determiners and noun phrase are all alien to me. I have heard of some of the words but no idea what any of them mean. I went to school in the 80s and 90s.

Totally agree that this level of technical knowledge is pointless. It detracts from an enjoyment of language and puts a drain on valuable time that could be used far more productively.

That and the assessments are seriously stacked against for anyone with dyslexia, dyscalculia or any other challenges with reading, writing and working memory.

Doesn't it make thing easier in secondary school if they do

It won't help them become better writers. You need to write, speak, listen, read etc to improve writing.

Basic SPAG helps with MFL. As your SPAG improves, it helps with MFL.

What reason has the Government given to justify this level of technical knowledge and the teaching time devoted to it?

Between, because next year when they encounter que in French the MFL teacher won't have to waste more than half the lesson teaching them the metalanguage necessary to describe their native language before they even think about teaching any French. This is a good thing: I remember when children were coming into secondary not even knowing the difference between noun and adjective, and this made teaching even basic foreign languages needlessly complex. Teaching SPAG and linguistic terminology is not in itself the object any more than teaching times tables is: the idea is to equip the pupils with tools needed for other applications.

HP you are absolutely right. Children will be taught to the test, many will still fail and be miserable. I do some work for 4 linked London prep schools and the staff are smugly watching this panic. Not because they believe their pupils would all pass it but because they are free from having to teach the syllabus!

Do they test similar grammatocal standard in CEM papers for the 11+ exams? I'm thinking the superselectives like Kendrick girls school or Tiffins?!

I think there's a danger of conflating what a generation was never taught (and so finds hard) with something actually being hard.

Not quite a text book, BoboChic, but Pie Corbett's 'JumpStart Grammar' gives activities for teaching and consolidating knowledge of most, if not all of this.

There probably will be more revision books available in the next few years.

between I took it and got 5 out of 10. Admittedly I didn't have any grammar lessons at school in the 70's and some knowledge of grammar would have been useful. I'm just lucky my first class degree and PhD didn't depend on this then, I guess!

It is waaaay harder than the old SPAG test my dd took last year.