to wonder if this is illegal?

[winkywinkola]

I had a new lock fitted. Got two keys with it.

I need a new key cut. I went to Timpsons. They cut me three for £50. None worked. I went back. They cut them again. None worked in the lock.

They said it was difficult because the code on the keys had been scratched off by the locksmiths and their phone number was etched on instead.

This means I can only get keys cut by that particular locksmith at an inflated price.

Is this legal? Aibu to be thoroughly cheesed off at having to pay almost double what Timpsons charged to new keys that work?

[BoomBoomsCousin]

Timpson's not Simpson's!

[BoomBoomsCousin]

It doesn't really matter whether or not the keys ought to be able to be cut by Simoson's or not. The locksmith should not be removing the code from the key. It's not their place to decide to do that.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

winky if the keys were your property at the time the code was scratched off and the locksmith deliberately scratched the code off without you permission or reasonable expectation that you would give it, then yes, that would be criminal damage. But I would think ownership of the key at the time the code was scratched off would be difficult to prove and wouldn't have confidence the police would be interested, though you never know, if they do this they may do all sorts of dodgy things.

You were presumably expecting a new key though. So trading standards is probably more appropriate - you haven't received the goods you contracted for in the appropriate condition.

[Sallyingforth]

But these particular keys should be able to be cut by Timpsons.

You are certain about that are you? I ask because mine can only be cut by a few agents of the manufacturer. The code is clearly marked on the keys but only an agent can make them and they have to see the ID card to prove I'm entitled to have them.

[winkywinkola]

Lol. I get that bit, Bun.

But these particular keys should be able to be cut by Timpsons.

We were sold them as high security because for example, a burglar can't slide a credit card along the door frame and open the lock that way. That's it.

The only reason they can't be cut by Timpsons is because the locksmith has erased the code. Not in the name of security but because they want us to only buy keys from them. At an inflated price.

That is the point.

[Bunbaker]

I think you are missing the point winky. The reason that only the locksmith can cut more keys is to make your lock more secure. If any Tom, Dick or Harry can get a key cut from anywhere who knows how many people have copies of your front door key? Read some of the previous posts.

[BigChocFrenzy]

You mentioned a landlord below.
OK, if you don't have an LL, then the lock was installed by the previous owner ? I chose expensive locks that can only be installed by certain locksmiths and require me to take ID. That's for my security though.

If I sold the property and the new owner wanted more than my (6!) sets of keys, then they would need to use the same locksmiths with ID, or change the locks,

[winkywinkola]

No. I own my house. But it seems the locksmith is the only one who holds the ability to cut more keys to my front door.

I can't get more keys cut unless I use this company. I am uncomfortable with that choice being taken away from me.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Good security locks would be expensive and extra keys need to be obtained by the LL, who might have to show ID.
If you change the locks to a property you rent, that probably breaks the terms of the contract you signed. You would have signed that you accept a specific number of keys; also the LL expects a maximum number of people to live there and to need keys.

LLs want to control the number of copies - it's in your interest too, because you don't want previous tenants to be able to gain access with extra keys they had cut.

[winkywinkola]

So the landlord, that is the owner of the property, has the code and has control over who gets copies of the key.

Our locksmith owns our code then and we have no control over who can have copies of our keys in that case, because they've scratched off the code and only they then can supply keys.

[whois]

Oh, to get a copy of our front door key you need the code and authorisation from the land lord. At least then you know there aren't any unauthorised copies flaring around.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

It's not that the shape of the key cannot be copied - Timpsons can cut almost all key "shapes".

It's that the code is missing, so the keys that Timpson or any other key cutter cuts won't work. That makes the door more secure.

If you bought a lock for that security, they've done the right thing. If you bought a normal lock and didn't want that extra security, and they didn't advertise that this is what they'd do, you should ask them for the code. If they won't provide it, you might have a case for saying they missold your lock.

[winkywinkola]

But these particular keys can be cut by Timpsons. It's just that this time they couldn't do it because of the code having been scratched off.

[Nonono]

Costs not cosys!

[Nonono]

I would be happy with the extra security must help keep insurance cosys down too.

[Bunbaker]

If it is a special security key then it is usual practice that you can only get another key from the people who supplied the lock. This is what makes it more secure.

£50 for three keys sounds extortionate.

[araiba]

the whole point of security keys is that the people who can copy them are restricted.

[winkywinkola]

Boom, is scratching the number off criminal damage?

[BoomBoomsCousin]

If you have bought the lock and keys as new from the original locksmith then he has either not provided you with the product you ordered, or he's committed criminal damage by scratching the number off. I would definitely be kicking up a bit of fuss about that.

[BlueJug]

I have keys that have to be cut by a particular company. With mine I have show id.

Neighbour's cleaner, we suspect, copied keys for four houses in the street. All were burgled at Christmas last year. Key easily copied in under an hour at the local Timpsons without them ever going missing or being noticed. She probably handed them to an "accomplice" while she was on her shift and he nipped down to shops.

Insurance wouldn't pay as no forced entry.

[Sallyingforth]

Be careful if you change the barrel to a standard yale type one from a diy store. They are extremely easy to open with a gadget you can buy on the web for a few pounds.
My insurance company won't accept them and insists on having a good mortise lock.

[winkywinkola]

It's a special security key. I think we will change the barrel.

It's a dirty trick.

I might contact trading standards agency.

[Fourarmsv2]

Timpsons near us charges £10 for 3 house keys. These must be something different - house keys don't have a code.

[hollyisalovelyname]

Our hall door key can only be cut by the firm that fitted the lock..... who have gone out of business

[sleeponeday]

Yeah, when I was at Uni all the keys were like this, and in a workplace. The whole point is you can't just get them copied. But if it's just a random locksmiths, and the keys aren't restricted for any valid reasons, then that's rather different.

I'd change the lock, and name and shame the company online. It's sharp practice.