To worry where this may lead

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

Just got home from hospital had a fall and badly sprained my ankle. Went to A and E and saw a junior doctor.
He did not seem to be bothered about my ankle and instead kept asking me about my epilespy how many seizures etc, am I under a specialist, why are they uncontrolled, why am I on no medication. In the end my husband said "she is not here about her seizures she is here about her ankle".
Back story- I have had epilepsy for 10 years, its always been uncontrolled and i decided a few years ago with the complete support of my specialist to come off medication as I did not feel it was helping. I have also a two year old DS
While the doctor finally looked at my ankle my husband said I am just going to ring your mum and make sure Ds is ok.
As soon as he had left the doctor started asking questions such as-
How do you look after your son with having seizures?
Is someone with you at all times?
Did your have the backing of your specialist before you got pregnant?
Does your son get scared when he sees you have seizures?
He then left the cubical shaking his head and saying he was not happy with this at all. I said what do you mean? But he carried on walking. Baring in mind that earlier he has expressed surprise that I "manage" to work with my condition.
When husband came back in I was close to tears and told him what had happened, next thing a consultant came in the cubical and said he was here to look at my ankle.
My husband told him what the first doctor had said and he just shrugged and sent me for an x ray.
While I was in X-ray my husband tried to find the junior doctor but with no success. I had X ray and then consultant came back to tell me it was not broken and I could go home.
I said I was not happy with the conduct of the junior doctor and he just said "make a complaint if you want" and left.
I told my husband I just wanted to go and would meet him at the main entrance as I now had crutches and he would go and get the car. As I came out the cubical I saw the junior doctor and another junior doctor with their backs to me and heard the works " unfit unsafe mother". I said "are you talking about me" and they just turned, looked and walked off.
I started crying and a lovely nurse came up to me and sat me down and I explained what had happened. She advised me to call my health visitor and Gp first thing in the morning to let them knows what happened and to file a complaint. She then walked with me to the main entrance and explained to Dh what had happened, he was all for going back in but I just wanted to go home and hug my DS.
Before I was pregnant I had the support of my epilespy specialist and Gp. All the midwive, doctors and health visitors where great during my pregnancy and afterwards. I have never ever had a negative reaction from a health professional until now. I just feel sick that this junior doctors who probably knows nothing about seziures may ring social services or do something else. I feel physically sick

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

So if I went into A and E with a cut lip and had stitches they would ask me how i would manage to care for my child? Again just interested. Did not realise this was part of the course.

[OurBlanche]

Sorry, you are right Gorilla I was lazy, that should have been 'isn't a fully qualified epilepsy specialist*

It still stands that he won't learn how to best interact with patients unless he is asked to revisit some of his interactions, especially where he has caused a certain amount of anxiety when a more considered conversation would have dealt with it in a far less scary manner.

[GorillaWar]

In our trust, yes. There are a series of boxes "do you have children? Where are they? Who are they with?" Etc. We are encouraged to keep asking questions until we're satisfied that any children are safe. It is part of the job. There have been so many cases of child neglect or abuse that have been missed because healthcare practitioners have thought it wasn't any of their business or relevant to that particular consultation. It is everyone's business and it is always relevant. I'm glad your child is well looked after but please consider that it might not be the case for everyone and no one wants to miss one child who needs help.

[AnnekaRice]

GP/HV notification for further support yes - you seem to have a system where it works and is safe, but not all will. I'd be interested in things like, where is your child, how old are they, who else is there - if on own, where is child? do you have lots of stairs etc. Most accidents occur in the home. It wouldn't be a question of hounding anyone and giving them endless grief over it, but about ways of making it as safe as possible really. Many parents struggle with long term health conditions but where it causes a lapse in consciousness it's something to be aware of, eg - is there a stairgate, a gate going into a kitchen, a dog in the house (or whatever) - what if it happened when baby was in the bath, etc. As you get a warning none of these apply to you but of course it could be very worrying depending on the circumstances.

[AnnekaRice]

& yes safeguarding tick box chain is triggered as standard in all NHS Trusts - some may come over more clumsily than others when running through it. I wouldn't take it to heart your situation seems to be covered from what you're saying but try and see it from the other angle if you're worried about it. It has to happen in case there are children at risk for whatever reason and is mainly about triggering channels of support to address needs if long term issue which requires additional support

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

I just know so many mums who have epilepsy and its uncontrolled and no warning (Joined many groups over the years) and there HV, doctors etc have not batted an eyelid.

[AnnekaRice]

well there's not a lot they can do but I would suspect conversations have been had re. safety, basic things, and emergency help, who is in the house etc. They probably have a way of dealing with it - eg, I won't bath baby until the evening when DH/other person is around or something like that.

[cranberryx]

Regardless of the questions about your epilepsy (which had no reason to do with why you were there in the first place so that's neither here nor there) I would accept the questions as box ticking.

I would NOT accept that he waited until your DH was out of the room to harass you, and then felt it prudent to ignore you when you asked him a direct question, and discussed you in view of the hospital.

You are a human being, worthy of respect and if that doctor cannot see that I don't think he should be around people.

I would make a complaint to pals - there are more sensitive ways to dealing with patients.

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

Fair enough but last time I checked baby Ps mum was a monster not someone with a long term health condition or disability. I don't think the two should ever be confused, there is a big difference between neglecting and abusing your child and your own medical condition or disability possibly putting them at a possible risk.

[GorillaWar]

Baby P is one end of a spectrum. The other end could be a child who would be a bit safer with a bit of extra input re: helping a disabled parent to safeguard their child against additional situations that may arise as a result of the disability. You're right, there is a big difference of course - it's just important to make sure that every child who can be helped is helped. So we have to ask everyone, I'm just sorry this doctor wasn't more sensitive about it. No one here thinks you're a monster.

[iamanintrovert]

He was not "just doing his job", he was way out of order. From the information you've provided us, nothing about your presentation at A&E would have aroused any safeguarding concerns. Definitely make a complaint.

[AnnekaRice]

A duty kicks in re. safeguarding- no, baby P is not the issue in the huge majority of cases of course and thank goodness but following that especially a renewed emphasis on ensuring safeguarding procedures are followed is. Therefore safeguarding of all children is very important and if there is a doubt over the safety of an environment then it's a good thing it's triggered. It's not there to be intrusive, it's something staff have to do in certain circumstances. Being unconscious on a regular and unpredictable schedule is likely to be one that leads to questions being asked. You responded fine - but if someone had a transient loss of consciousness due to serious drug abuse or being beaten by a violent partner until they blacked out - or taking an intentional overdose and drinking to excess - and they had a little 18 month old in the house all of the time, and no support set ups at all - then they'd probably need some more support.

[AnnekaRice]

Equally more support or asking about support or plans i.e. ensuring precautions are in place for someone with a particular illness or disability, is surely a good thing? but this is about things like, asking if you have stairgates, or if your knees suddenly give while walking downstairs asking if you hold the bannisters, or have assistance with certain tasks relating to baby etc. It's not a punitive or judgemental approach. I'd be cross about what was heard/said/not said in A&E though.

[MissFitt68]

iamnot yes, but remember we do only have op take on this

The junior doctor will probably have his own story to tell. We dont know what he thought/saw/read/heard to prompt him to explore further.

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

Hi everyone thankyou for your views. I am going to ask for this thread to be removed. I am thinking back to when I used to have uncrontrolled seizures with no warnings and was thinking if becoming a mum. Some of the replies on this would have killed me inside and it would not have mattered if you where talking sense or not and a lot of you are but I was not as objective back then. I just don't want a young maybe newly diagnosed mum to feel that way.

[Baconyum]

IMHO he was way out of order!

Blah blah safeguarding seems to be becoming an excuse for insensitive intrusive question in which won't actually protect children!

Plus taking advantage of your husband leaving the cubicle and discussing you in an inappropriate manner (nobody should be discussed this way!) and possible breach of confidentiality!

Definitely complain!

[ragged]

Baby P's mom didn't seem like a monster. She seemed like someone ordinary, maybe a little stressed out. Probably defensive. Lots of people (SS, doctors, social workers) were involved in her life, and presumably they all knew what they were doing, she could refer each of them to each other, so each person just concentrated on their little bit.

That's why the lad slipped thru the net.
Medical people can't win. They either "pass the buck" or are "jumped up" little tyrants.

Isn't it good that so many people want to make sure your son's situation is safe?

[Heebiejeebie]

Do you have non-epileptic seizures?

[expatinscotland]

See GP. Contact HP. Make a formal complaint. There's safeguarding and there's assumption 'unfit, unsafe mother'.

[GruntledOne]

The point is, ragged, that in Baby P's case there were massive pointers to what was going on in the shape of Peter himself, particularly his injuries. In this case the doctor was making massive assumptions arising purely from OP's condition without, apparently, bothering to check her medical notes, or to talk to her husband. Yes, you can decide that there are risks with a parent with uncontrolled epilepsy; what you cannot decide, without evidence (particularly without any evidence of injury to the child himself) is that that parent has not taken appropriate precautions to ensure her child's safety.

[Sighing]

My mum has epilepsy she was slso a teenage mum who got far more questions about her competence based on her age. Epilepsy includes a range of affects on an individual. A well versed medic should know that. Do complain, the junior should realise your decisions have been made with advice and stfu. I remember timing my mums seizures to check they were within her normal and fetching her drinks or rinsteads after (bit her tounge a lot).

[GruntledOne]

Since baby p and cases like him there is scrutiny from everywhere so if there is the slightest chance of a safeguarding issue they have got to check.

But there's checking, and there's interrogating an injured person after their husband has gone out of the room, making judgments about their ability to work, shaking your head at their answers and declaring you're not happy at all, and going out and having conversations audible to other patients about unfit mothers. Do you not think a line was crossed here, lexigrey?