To worry where this may lead

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

Just got home from hospital had a fall and badly sprained my ankle. Went to A and E and saw a junior doctor.
He did not seem to be bothered about my ankle and instead kept asking me about my epilespy how many seizures etc, am I under a specialist, why are they uncontrolled, why am I on no medication. In the end my husband said "she is not here about her seizures she is here about her ankle".
Back story- I have had epilepsy for 10 years, its always been uncontrolled and i decided a few years ago with the complete support of my specialist to come off medication as I did not feel it was helping. I have also a two year old DS
While the doctor finally looked at my ankle my husband said I am just going to ring your mum and make sure Ds is ok.
As soon as he had left the doctor started asking questions such as-
How do you look after your son with having seizures?
Is someone with you at all times?
Did your have the backing of your specialist before you got pregnant?
Does your son get scared when he sees you have seizures?
He then left the cubical shaking his head and saying he was not happy with this at all. I said what do you mean? But he carried on walking. Baring in mind that earlier he has expressed surprise that I "manage" to work with my condition.
When husband came back in I was close to tears and told him what had happened, next thing a consultant came in the cubical and said he was here to look at my ankle.
My husband told him what the first doctor had said and he just shrugged and sent me for an x ray.
While I was in X-ray my husband tried to find the junior doctor but with no success. I had X ray and then consultant came back to tell me it was not broken and I could go home.
I said I was not happy with the conduct of the junior doctor and he just said "make a complaint if you want" and left.
I told my husband I just wanted to go and would meet him at the main entrance as I now had crutches and he would go and get the car. As I came out the cubical I saw the junior doctor and another junior doctor with their backs to me and heard the works " unfit unsafe mother". I said "are you talking about me" and they just turned, looked and walked off.
I started crying and a lovely nurse came up to me and sat me down and I explained what had happened. She advised me to call my health visitor and Gp first thing in the morning to let them knows what happened and to file a complaint. She then walked with me to the main entrance and explained to Dh what had happened, he was all for going back in but I just wanted to go home and hug my DS.
Before I was pregnant I had the support of my epilespy specialist and Gp. All the midwive, doctors and health visitors where great during my pregnancy and afterwards. I have never ever had a negative reaction from a health professional until now. I just feel sick that this junior doctors who probably knows nothing about seziures may ring social services or do something else. I feel physically sick

[Baconyum]

Amarmai I agree some pp and the dr mentioned sound as if they still have the belief that epilepsy is a mental illness/learning disability, that it can only be managed by medication and that drs are always right!

[Baconyum]

Bluejug does 'the right thing' include his patronising attitude unprofessional choice of words and possible breach of confidentiality?

As for 'be grateful' patronising much?!

[amarmai]

op i am wondering whether attitudes of some towards those of us who have epilepsy are stuck in the ignorance and fear of the past. When we give up the info that that we have epilepsy , the next question is what medication do you take. As soon as we answer no medication the hackles rise up. How dare we refuse medication. We are flouting the god/doctor's power. S/he will seek to punish/control us.
You sound like a very good mother to me ,op. Also you have medical support and from family . As long as you and you dh and your gp are satisfied with how you are managing your health and safety and your c's , then it is not relevant or helpful to open the door to the kind of upsetting response you have described. Think carefully about how entrenched medical power will respond if you complain. Best to go to your trusted medical advisors , keep cool and do not attack the dr , just say you want to update and have it recorded that everything is AOK. Then if there are any follow ups, underplay it and refer to your own medical people . They will close it down .
BTW i am mid 70s and have brought up 3 cc to adulthood and held down difficult teaching assignements , while being epilectic and taking no medication. It's just another job to be managed . Keep on doing what you're doing op and keep private what needs to be kept private- not because there is shame in our being epilectic, but because some people are judgemental and ignorant and a few can be vindictive.

[BlueJug]

He was doing his job. Sorry you were upset but he was doing the right thing with the info he had at the time. Be grateful that you have that care.

[StatisticallyChallenged]

Some of these posts are terrible. Asking some general safeguarding questions, fine, but by the sound of it he took it way too far. Epilepsy is an extremely diverse condition and it sounds like he had little understanding. DH has epilepsy-his is controlled by meds but when he had fits he didn't get any warning. It's never been discussed really, and he is our dc main carer.

I was also taken to hospital recently after an accident. I think discussion of dc went "where's your child" "with her granny who came to get her" "ok". I was in hospital for a week and it was never mentioned again.

[AnnekaRice]

I absolutely think it was handled very badly and unprofessionally and feel for the OP in her situation. I've had it myself too and couldn't believe what one nurse was doing quizzing me when I'd taken my daughter to A&E, as if it were a non accidental cause - she was actually acutely unwell and afterwards I felt furious, upset and belittled and was quite prickly 'how dare they jump to conclusions when Ive brought her straight to hospital! wtf are the doing wasting time on this when they could be, y'know, treating her' etc so I completely empathise with OP's feelings in this matter and even more so when it was for something so completely unrelated to anything to do with her DC. I think the matter was handled inappropriately and communication skills are often dire. We do not know if dr was talking about OP outside but that could warrant a complaint as it's possibly breaching patient confidentiality and also completely unprofessional language. He would have been better to have said 'I'm concerned that this may have been a seizure, she has a young child and I've asked if she has appropriate support in place. She says that she is well supported at home and has specialist oversight aware of her circumstances' or whatever it may have been.

I think what happened here is that the doctor thought OP had a seizure and wasn't aware of it perhaps, therefore was concerned that '20 mins warning' is not reliable. It’s nothing to do with baby P no! I dont think anyone said it was - but just saying that if he had not asked questions about child, and it had occurred with no warning while eg. holding baby in a perilous situation and then something awful had happened to the child, there'd be serious questions over the doctor's competence if there had been a recent A&E attendance, the doctor had missed a seizure, and completely failed to ask questions despite knowledge of epilepsy history and caring responsibilities.

I think it could have and should have been handled much better and he may have a knowledge gap in seizure disorders, but please try not to take it personally OP. It was not meant in a horrible way and there won't be any bad consequences from it but I am sorry you had a bad experience.

[Baconyum]

Agree with ontheedge

Some of the posts are appalling!

[WorraLiberty]

He asked a series of questions which fair enough, weren't nice for the OP but let's stop calling it 'interrogation' for goodness sake.

As a PP said, he won't have had access to the OP's files so he was bound to ask questions, especially as there is a 2 year old in the family.

[OnTheEdgeToday]

There was absolutely no need for anybody to relate this with baby P. No need at all for that to be brought up.

That is so far from what op is needing/wanting to hear right now!

[ZebraLovesKnitting]

I would complain, fair enough it's his job to flag up any concerns, but it's not his job to interrogate you.

My DC are 5 and 2.5 years. After I had DC2 I started having epileptic seizures out of the blue. After a year I had gotten them under control, but I never had any input from SS or my HV. I find that sometimes people can be quick to say you'll automatically have a referral to SS because of something.

Over the past few years I've taken DC1 to A&E a couple of years ago because I accidentally hit his head on a stone wall and he was vomiting, had an ambulance out to glue and steristrip a huge, deep cut on the side of DC1's head where he & DH had been messing around on the floor and he caught it on the cellar trap-door's sharp metal edging strip. I've taken DC2 to A&E because she'd gotten into the bay window and then fallen out, smashing her face onto the radiator. And then personally, I've developed epilepsy and also spent 5 months in a mental health unit as I was very suicidal. Not had a SS or HV referral for any of it, ever.

[GruntledOne]

Since baby p and cases like him there is scrutiny from everywhere so if there is the slightest chance of a safeguarding issue they have got to check.

But there's checking, and there's interrogating an injured person after their husband has gone out of the room, making judgments about their ability to work, shaking your head at their answers and declaring you're not happy at all, and going out and having conversations audible to other patients about unfit mothers. Do you not think a line was crossed here, lexigrey?

[Sighing]

My mum has epilepsy she was slso a teenage mum who got far more questions about her competence based on her age. Epilepsy includes a range of affects on an individual. A well versed medic should know that. Do complain, the junior should realise your decisions have been made with advice and stfu. I remember timing my mums seizures to check they were within her normal and fetching her drinks or rinsteads after (bit her tounge a lot).

[GruntledOne]

The point is, ragged, that in Baby P's case there were massive pointers to what was going on in the shape of Peter himself, particularly his injuries. In this case the doctor was making massive assumptions arising purely from OP's condition without, apparently, bothering to check her medical notes, or to talk to her husband. Yes, you can decide that there are risks with a parent with uncontrolled epilepsy; what you cannot decide, without evidence (particularly without any evidence of injury to the child himself) is that that parent has not taken appropriate precautions to ensure her child's safety.

[expatinscotland]

See GP. Contact HP. Make a formal complaint. There's safeguarding and there's assumption 'unfit, unsafe mother'.

[Heebiejeebie]

Do you have non-epileptic seizures?

[ragged]

Baby P's mom didn't seem like a monster. She seemed like someone ordinary, maybe a little stressed out. Probably defensive. Lots of people (SS, doctors, social workers) were involved in her life, and presumably they all knew what they were doing, she could refer each of them to each other, so each person just concentrated on their little bit.

That's why the lad slipped thru the net.
Medical people can't win. They either "pass the buck" or are "jumped up" little tyrants.

Isn't it good that so many people want to make sure your son's situation is safe?

[Baconyum]

IMHO he was way out of order!

Blah blah safeguarding seems to be becoming an excuse for insensitive intrusive question in which won't actually protect children!

Plus taking advantage of your husband leaving the cubicle and discussing you in an inappropriate manner (nobody should be discussed this way!) and possible breach of confidentiality!

Definitely complain!

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

Hi everyone thankyou for your views. I am going to ask for this thread to be removed. I am thinking back to when I used to have uncrontrolled seizures with no warnings and was thinking if becoming a mum. Some of the replies on this would have killed me inside and it would not have mattered if you where talking sense or not and a lot of you are but I was not as objective back then. I just don't want a young maybe newly diagnosed mum to feel that way.

[MissFitt68]

iamnot yes, but remember we do only have op take on this

The junior doctor will probably have his own story to tell. We dont know what he thought/saw/read/heard to prompt him to explore further.

[AnnekaRice]

Equally more support or asking about support or plans i.e. ensuring precautions are in place for someone with a particular illness or disability, is surely a good thing? but this is about things like, asking if you have stairgates, or if your knees suddenly give while walking downstairs asking if you hold the bannisters, or have assistance with certain tasks relating to baby etc. It's not a punitive or judgemental approach. I'd be cross about what was heard/said/not said in A&E though.

[AnnekaRice]

A duty kicks in re. safeguarding- no, baby P is not the issue in the huge majority of cases of course and thank goodness but following that especially a renewed emphasis on ensuring safeguarding procedures are followed is. Therefore safeguarding of all children is very important and if there is a doubt over the safety of an environment then it's a good thing it's triggered. It's not there to be intrusive, it's something staff have to do in certain circumstances. Being unconscious on a regular and unpredictable schedule is likely to be one that leads to questions being asked. You responded fine - but if someone had a transient loss of consciousness due to serious drug abuse or being beaten by a violent partner until they blacked out - or taking an intentional overdose and drinking to excess - and they had a little 18 month old in the house all of the time, and no support set ups at all - then they'd probably need some more support.

[iamanintrovert]

He was not "just doing his job", he was way out of order. From the information you've provided us, nothing about your presentation at A&E would have aroused any safeguarding concerns. Definitely make a complaint.

[GorillaWar]

Baby P is one end of a spectrum. The other end could be a child who would be a bit safer with a bit of extra input re: helping a disabled parent to safeguard their child against additional situations that may arise as a result of the disability. You're right, there is a big difference of course - it's just important to make sure that every child who can be helped is helped. So we have to ask everyone, I'm just sorry this doctor wasn't more sensitive about it. No one here thinks you're a monster.