To just not get sencos

[Shaddawadsa]

I'm training as a mh professional and part of my job is to go into schools to talk about how to meet additonal needs, specifically behavior/ emotional development. I have meetings with sencos who are also head teachers, deputy heads, class teachers, most of whom don't seem to have senco training and aren't given the time needed to do the job. Could someone explain what is going on? I just don't get how it is an effective way of supporting the children with real needs. Aibu?

[Mrsjayy]

There was 3 senco teachers when Dd was in primary 2 were amazing 1 not so much but i found out her funding had been cut so the additional classes and different bits and pieces they ran before vanished so this 1 teacher was responsible for however many children with additional needs and they had no support i felt really guilty for slagging her off. I think they have a difficult job yabu to think these teachers are pointless some might be better than others.

[Lurkedforever1]

I know for a fact funding has been provided for children who have attended schools who view that personal funding as general school funds. Not to mention children with milder needs who's pp would easily cover any extra costs whose parents have been told the school hasn't got the money.

Tbh if it means everyone else having to juggle computer time or using ancient furniture to provide a few hours of one to one a week, or a lunch club then I think the fundamental right to an education trumps a bit of scrimping elsewhere. And I say that as the parent of a high achieving nt child. Bit of corner cutting on extras is less important than her friends right to be included in the education system. And the schools who are worst at dealing with Sen are also worst for any outliers imo.

The good schools seem to find a way of footing the first part of the cost. Dds primary had higher than average Sen ( certainly not made up from high achievers with low level needs) and managed it whilst still meeting her needs so it can be done. Assuming senco and school leadership a) have the wit to try and b) actually give a shit and want to try.

[Burmesemum]

I feel extremely fortunate now as I have my son in a specialist independent school. We had to fight tooth and nail to get him in there hiring a Barrister and team of solicitors and had to spend thousands on private reports. We saved every penny we had but we were absolutely determined to keep him out of mainstream.

May sound dramatic but for us it was a life and death situation. We could see our son falling apart at the seams in Year 6 of Primary and his Psychiatrist told us if we did not get him out of mainstream he would have to go on medication for anxiety. He had been diagnosed with an anxiety and depressive disorder at 11 years old.

All the talk of self harm, grabbing kitchen knives out of drawers or threatening to jump out of the window have now completely stopped.

Why should we have to fight so hard when it is starkly obvious that our child cannot cope in mainstream. County took us right up to the wire obviously hoping we wouldn't be able to take the stress psychologically or financially but they caved in at the last minute realising we were not going to give in. Also we had that much evidence they would have looked very silly if they would have took us to Tribunal.

What makes me very sad are those parents who are unable for one reason or another to do what we did. What happens to their children.

[OwlinaTree]

You have to find the first 10 hours out of school budget though.

[OwlinaTree]

Statements dont come with funding in our area but the ehc plan does.

You can apply for funding to match the statement suggested funding however and you generally get it.

[Morganly]

I just want to point out that EHCPs or Statements don't bring any funding to the school or college, despite what several previous poster seem to think. They put legal obligations on the school/college to provide extra support without any extra funding.

[Shaddawadsa]

Thanks float. I promise I will try my absolute best.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

The 2 great Camhs workers -Philippa and Lee - said at the time that they had a lot to say about what was happening to ds (and me) but couldn't because of their role within the local educational system. I understood that then as much as I do now. Many years later and hundreds of miles away I will always remember their support.

If you can walk that same fine line for just one child Shad you are doing fine.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

Thanks Shad any flowers I normally get are ones I grow.

[Shaddawadsa]

So sorry to hear that float

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

My ds was told age 6 that if he didn't behave he would go to a school that he couldn't go home from. I thought he had made it up, but no, his class teacher smilingly confirmed it as if she thought it normal. The HT scoffed at any suggestion, both professional and amateur, that ds had ASD. Roll on 9 years, ds has recovered from the experience but at his great cost, which I'm ready to reposition again; the HT no longer teaches but works for Ofsted and the young gal that was his teacher/Senco when ds was 6 years old gave up teaching too and working in general.

Despite 4 years of non-education/exclusion/other schools/PRUs/ASD dx/recommendations from foxy type Sencos - ds's Statement avers that he was "home educated" during this period and the only Educational Advice comes from when he was 6 years old. He's 14 in a couple of weeks! Been in a strict BESD school (day) for 4 years now, great for the first 2 years, alarmingly crap for the last 2 and I'm forming our Exit Policy.

At least things are changing now - and I'm inclined to actually say bugger it, I'm gonna Home-Ed coz u ain't good enough.

[Lurkedforever1]

shadda I think it's fucking criminal. Unfortunately the usual description is 'we tried our best' and 'behavioral issues'.

[Lurkedforever1]

Agreed, that's why unfortunately I stuck with saying recent, I can think of plenty of similar straight forward ones I know of, before even getting into complex ones. One similar one being played out now with an ex primary classmate of dds. And Sen or education aren't even areas I have specific involvement in, just a minor cross over sometimes through work and normal social experience. But hey, we all know a few parenting classes will provide a cure.

It blows me away if I'm honest that the huge impact of an alien secondary environment with a totally different atmosphere is brushed off when it comes to Sen. Although tbh it happens at plenty of primaries too.

[Shaddawadsa]

Sorry getting a bit hot under the collar here. It must be something, surely? Not protecting a vulnerable child?

[Shaddawadsa]

lurked I have heard this before along the grapevine of colleagues - its a fucking disgrace.
Is it systemic disablist abuse??

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Lurked. That is sadly all to frequent an occurrence and could be one of any of the thousands of children with disabilities that are percieved as behaviour issues.

you would think a qualified experanced senco would be aware that is a huge risk for the child, wouldn't you.

[Shaddawadsa]

Burmesemum that is just awful. I'm so sorry for your poor boy.

OK. This has been a major eye opener.

What incredible cruelty to our most vulnerable children. I feel incredibly sad.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

As I said - most of our experiences are negative. It's not just the Sencos, even if you have a good one, it's the whole crap system. Gradually this is changing with the replacement of Statements with Plans. It's going to take years for all parties to adjust. I have actually seen a difference in that ds's Indie SS have increased their day/primary provision which shows that the LEAs are responding to non-mainstream needs more appropriately and sooner. Great.

For ds though, nowYr9 and still just a Statement that is truly a bunch of pants, but unquestioned by me as Part 4 names an Indie SS, it's not so good. But not the end of The World.

[Notonaschoolnight]

Burmesemum spot on my dd doesn't get 50% 121 with a TA that her statement dictates she gets 2 hours a week for her math, 2 fucking hours I swear to god

[Burmesemum]

I always remember this incident because it was typical of how my son's disability was ignored and the after affects for us at home because of this.

I had told school that if there were any video footage to be used in the classroom that they must run it past me first given my son's inability to recognise fantasy from reality.

This was ignored and he along with his classmates were shown video footage of a child being run over by a train. It was not graphic but implied.

Son comes home in a highly agitated state obsessing about the child being run over by the train. This continues all evening and a sleepless night follows with continual nightmares about child getting killed by train.

Son goes into school the next day tired through lack of sleep and written in his home/school diary is "please make sure J gets to bed on time tonight".

I wrote a full page informing them of exactly what happened and guess what the following month it happened again.

Inclusion is just a word and it doesn't work with many children particularly children with ASD. If you have a child with ASD you need to have a close working relationship with school but unfortunately school do not want this close working relationship because it means more work for them.

What they do instead is take your hard fought after Statement that is supposed to be a legal binding document and totally ignore it or give lip service to it. The LSA who is employed by the LEA to support your child is then shared amongst the rest of the needy children in the class leaving no time to deliver the Statement.

SENCOs know this and so they too try to keep out of your way as much as possible or deter you from getting support for your child in the first place.

You might not like what I say but it's the truth. That's what happens.

[Lauren15]

Lurked I know a very similar story about a boy diagnosed with ASD who was at school with my ds. The primary school were great. He went up to secondary and in the first term ended up hitting a boy who'd been winding him up. He got suspended for three days. The mum of the second boy (who had been at the same primary) said it 'served him right' because he'd been given too much leeway at primary. Cow.
I work at a primary. All I know about secondary SEN provision is from other parents but it sounds pretty appalling.

[Lurkedforever1]

I'll give you a recent example of a statemented child causing disruption and danger to others. With a few irrelevant details changed because it's not my child to discuss. Child does ok in primary despite dx that impacts social/ behavior side. Child goes to secondary. Childs statement ignored because he was fine at lunchtime in primary. Child gets picked on at break/ lunch for being odd. Child starts showing signs of approaching meltdowns. Child goes off to be alone. Child bollocked by dinner lady. Child bollocked at break by prefect at tuck shop. Child proves weirdness by going off and/or screaming and shouting. Child wound up cos it's 'funny'. Child sent home regularly for behaving badly towards others. Poor little innocent tarquin was only being friendly, that nasty bad tempered child should have known he was joking. Especially cos tarquin can lie his way out of his bullying behavior and call 'child' the instigator. Child eventually snaps and has full blown meltdown involving chair throwing. Child disruptive and dangerous to be round others. Poor school have tried their best. Needs to be moved to another setting. Child won't get specialist provision because childs 'not that severe'. Child therefore 'bad' parents 'bad'. Child written off by education.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

I am interested what kind of behaviour you are talking about 'symptoms of their disability'. I have seen children act in ways which endanger themselves and others, which is caused by their 'disability' or SN. I feel so sorry for them but it often takes 2 or 3 members of staff to handle these situations. If it's a rare occurrence that is manageable but if it happens often, you cannot expect the school to have to regularly cope with it

From strimming to anxiousness to full on 2:1 positive handling situations being required and most things inbetween.

If a school says yes we can offer this child a place and the issues have been fed to them then yes they should cope with it and yes you should be able to expect them to do so.

It is far more helpful to parents and children to be upfront and admit you cannot accomadate a need at the first availible chance to do so.

We have children in this country not receiving an education or not able to recieve one because schools and sencos are colluding in a misguided attempt to appear to be efficient and apparently save money unsurprisingly it usually ends up costing more when they do this.

Oh and it's not a case of parents feeling it has happened a great many of them end up with courts or tribunals agreeing with them that it has and that it does.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

Foxy you are obviously one of the few Sencos that takes the job seriously as well as the needs of the children and you are also highly-qualified and experienced. You also recognize the need for all agencies and parents to work together for the good of the children. There are also some posts on here from parents who are deeply grateful and appreciate the work and effort that their school's Senco puts in. Unless they are all parents from your school thankfully you are not the only one.

But the vast majority of posts on here are from parents who are very unhappy with their Senco experiences - and this can not be denied. Just because things should work in a certain way it doesn't mean that it does.

You probably weren't a Senco I came across, but because I appreciate what you do, please have some .

[Alfieisnoisy]

Quite honestly I think SENCOs and support staff in mainstream are hugely overworked.

Many special schools have closed and the LEAs insist that most children should be in a mainstream school. This will be despite the huge warning signs that things are not going well.

My son dropped two whole levels in English and at least one level in every other subject. What scares me is that the school could not see this was a problem and a sign he was not coping. It took a good few months of fighting and arguing with the LEA to get a special school placement. I would have Ho d to tribunal had they not agreed it.

Despite the issues I liked the SENCO who was clearly overwhelmed and overworked.
I took her in a thank you card and some chocolates after DS had moved and she waxed lyrical about the academic progress DS made during the last year. I didn't bother arguing that he hadn't as she didn't have the figures in front of her and I didn't expect her to keep that in her head with all the other info.