"People in this country are already struggling"

[iamaboveandBeyond]

Can i just ask, am i alone in this (and therefore IABU)?

But as a person who is 'struggling' in the UK, i am sick of people who are not in a similar position using "us" as a reason why the country cannot afford to help refugees?

I have said this on many threads already, but wondered what others thought outside of the specific Syria/Calais threads

(Note - I'm not the thread police of course, but if this didnt morph into an identikit refugee thread, that'd be fab :) )

[JassyRadlett]

It's going to come out of the government coffers - not the MOD, or farming subsidies or windfarm subsidies because they're ringfenced.

Total aside, but where on earth did that idea about windfarms come from? The opposite is true - big changes to subsidies recently for all renewables(and they were never paid for by government funds anyway - it was levies on electricity bills).

On demographics - Unicef says that, by its estimates, a third of the people transiting through Macedonia are women and children.

[tomatodizzymum]

I actually think Britain can do more, but that's not to say that I don't think Britain will be affected, of course it will. There will be added stresses on the services that are already affected. Not across the board but focused in areas where people are already poor. When any changes happen, it is the poor who are most affected and a conservative government always makes this worse. Before leaving the UK I saw many services slashed, in inner London where I lived schools and services that had benefited from a boom, were suddenly struggling.

I personally cannot abide the whole suffering is relative. Suffering is suffering. People who suffer in the UK, suffer within the reality that is theirs. If someone comes and tells them that others are worse, it will not make their suffering any less. What needs to be done, is not cherry pick the worst ones and tell the others to suck it up! Charity starts at home. And while it does start at home, it doesn't have to end there.

[Lweji]

Can aid ensure that people in Syria are safe?

[Lweji]

I don't see the sense in rewarding those that have the money and ability to track through half a dozen safe countries to find one they like....

Which is why the UK is prepared to take refugees but not those already in Europe. The most vulnerable are probably in the refugee camps and haven't managed to leave.

[ender]

Paddy Ashdown in the Guardian today seems to have inside knowledge of the conditions in the camps. I must have missed the news reports of his visits there.

....the prime minister chooses to help those who are already safely housed and fed in refugee camps outside Europe, rather than those who suffer (and die too) for want of these things inside Europe.....

[JanetBlyton]

I don't think the refugee camps outside the EU are a bed of roses by any means.

[ender]

Neither do I, meant to put a in my post.

[featherandblack]

One need doesn't cancel another out.

Britain prides itself on 'Christian' values. Unfortunately for us, the Christian model of charity doesn't have a clause about our not having to give as a nation if we can't really afford to. On the contrary, the woman with two coins was upheld as an example of Christian giving because she'd given everything when she could least afford it.

Put it this way, I think it would be a bit rich for anyone saying we couldn't afford to help Syrian refugees to buy into the Christmas story this Christmas. No room at the inn and all that.

[ghostyslovesheep]

the men make the journey alone if possible because they can then legally send for their wives and children - they would only risk their lives if they had no other choice - better to lock yourself in the back of an airless crate and hope they grant you refugee status in the EU than risk your wife, parents and kids lives for nothing

[BoffinMum]

The question is not whether people are struggling, it is how we can get more skilled at integration. We are currently fairly rubbish at it.

[tomatodizzymum]

That's a really good point boffinmum.

[Lweji]

I'd rather say unfortunately for the most selfish amongst us, feather.
There are, thankfully, quite a few that apply those values.

[Aqualady]

'christian values' - oh the irony.

[BeckerLleytonNever]

Which is funny as in normal circumstances the 'we should help our own first' brigade couldn't give a flying fuck about the poor in this country and show no interest whatsoever in helping them.

Local councils have been saying that they have put aside housing and money for healthcare etc for refugees. If they had that housing/money available why haven't they spent it already on the people in their area who needed housing etc?

^^ this and thiss below.

I don't get where the money is supposed to come from. Dave has spent the last few years telling us the country is too skint to pay for decent public services.

My parents are both having to wait very long times for operations. They live every day in pain, despite paying for the nhs all their lives. If the money exists to pay for keeping refugees, why are my parents still on waiting lists?

totally.

BTW theyre getting the money from yet more cuts and taking away from the disabled and vulnerable. that's where. NOT their own pockets, not their own mansions!

[BeckerLleytonNever]

Notime how many people in this country have taken their own lives because of thee unfeeling uncaring government taking EVERYTHING away from them?

And Im getting to that point too.

[Notimefortossers]

And I feel for them BeckerLleytonNever but having everything taken away from you by an uncaring government is not the same as having the shit bombed out of your towns and villages and watching your children die in front of you. Amongst other atrocities.

[featherandblack]

I agree notime. We have no idea what it's like to be bombed out of our homes and live in fear of our lives. I would be willing to bet it's worse than the very valid problems people are suffering here. Most countries have poverty they are trying to do something about - sometimes not enough. But if everyone used that poverty as an excuse not to intervene when another nation is going through something much worse, aren't we losing sight of what it means to be human? How would we like it if people responded to Britain this way if we were to go under? There's also the small matter of our having most of the world's resources and living in relative luxury to the rest of the world. Our 'tough' is not the South African township 'tough'. I can imagine most of the world scoffing at the idea that we couldn't take a cut to our standard of living because our country couldn't afford to sink any lower.

[iamaboveandBeyond]

Wow, thank you for all the responses! I will read it properly in the morning :)

[godsavethequeeeen]

I'm a low earning single mum, generally exhausted and miserable and being hit by tory cuts. But I'm not being bombed.

As far as I'm concerned the refugees are welcome here.

[Lostlight]

Exactly what god save said.

It's usually those with the least that are prepared to share what little they have.

Right now I am fucking ashamed to be British, I abhor this selfish attitude. We have plenty to share. We have freedom, we have peace, we most of all have lack of such desperation that we choose to load our children into overcrowded dinghies in the middle of the night. And I dare say most of have never experienced the total terror and abject misery that comes with such desperation

If we can't find some compassion and humanity to give such a small amount, then we are well and truly lost.

That is all.

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

I know lots of people who are struggling and they are not anti immigration and they want us to help the refugees. I know lots of very well off people who voted for a government that made peoples lives difficult and yet they use them as an excuse when they say they are anti immigration and don't want to help any refugees.

[Aqualady]

Right now I am fucking ashamed to be British, I abhor this selfish attitude

I hate that ^ When MNers hate their own nation, being British. I think you'd actually hate^ to be Syrian or any other of the nations that are seeking refuge here and in Europe (and rightly so) so lost I think you need to wind your neck in and stop being hysterical. Nobody I have spoke to thinks that she shouldnt except or help these people.

I'd actually rather live here than most places on this earth. The UK is ok. The summer is wank but it's not a bad place to be compared to other places. That's why people seek to get here. For safety.

I often find That posters are hypocritical onhere sometimes and it's the same posters. "UK has no sovereign religion any more, embrace minority religions!!' Then when the shit hits the fan '' Use Cristian morals to help refugees!!'

Be embarrased to be British that's fine. But many many people are not and actually do care and want to help out this crisis. I'm from Manchester and I'm part of a drive that is collecting clothes and food. So save your shame for some one else.

[LightningOnlyStrikesOnce]

I do feel for you Becker and those like you. You do raise a worthwhile question, which is why in hell are we treating our poorest like this. The business with people taking their own lives in response to benefit sanctions and so on (usually for petty reasons) is I think a state crime, and it is appalling that our representatives in Parliament think it is in any way an acceptable price of modern society and have done little to stop it. Britain can afford better, there is no excuse for it.

Britain can also afford to help refugees though. I can't imagine that being told Britain is so rich helps you to feel any happier, but it is. The two needs are not mutually exclusive. We certainly need to make sure our poorest don't suffer any more for that help.