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AIBU?

"Compliment" from a man. Feminist issue?

35 replies

Roobix04 · 05/09/2015 13:15

Out dancing last night with my two sisters when a very drunk man approached my younger sister. He asked her if she was ginger and when she said yes he told her that he was the best looking red head he'd ever seen.
My little sister smiled politely and said thank you and then we all sort of turned away to make it clear we weren't interested in talking. He repeated it again and then said he'd leave us alone.
The problem is my older sister was really annoyed. She said that it smacked of negging and he shouldn't be allowed to think that's a compliment no matter how harmless he was. My little sister said there's nothing wrong with being polite and there's no need to be a bitch when someone compliments you. This descended into a discussion about men thinking it's ok to hand out unwanted compliments in the form of cat calls.
I can see both their points and was leaning more towards my older sisters point but I changed the subject before an argument started. So who was being unreasonable?

OP posts:

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Roobix04 · 05/09/2015 21:39

I didn't get any random men talking to me but I did have some guy grab my wrist from behind and try and pull me round to dance with him. He tried twice.
I don't think my older sister was jealous. She's very persistent with her view points and she definitely thought my other sister was being naive.

OP posts:

LumpySpacedPrincess · 05/09/2015 17:01

It's bloody annoying isn't it, and it is a feminist issue. When I go out with friends for a catch up we are constantly interrupted by men offering one random compliment after another. It's bloody rude, and you're expected to stop and engage with them. I wouldn't dream of wondering round a pub walking up to people and offering my opinion on their looks, and expecting them to feel happy for this.

When a woman is in a public area it's a way that men remind them of their place in society.

SmugairleRoin · 05/09/2015 16:36

From having met a few of these through my brother (the joys) they came across as very socially awkward.

Plates btw = spinning plates, having lots of women on the go at once. I mean when I was dating I'd be texting or going on initial dates with a few at once so in a way I don't think it's bad...of course these guys take it to extremes.

honeyrider · 05/09/2015 16:34

I think the older sister is being ott, sounds like she's not happy that your younger sister got a compliment and she didn't even if it was from someone who was drunk.

thehypocritesoaf · 05/09/2015 16:33

It is a very odd compliment.

You're the best looking red head I've ever seen.

Why not just say? You look great. Or whatever.

It certainly carries undertones of red heads generally aren't good looking, or, in your case, I'll make an exception to my no red heads rule.

He sounds like a drunk clumsily trying his luck.

SmugairleRoin · 05/09/2015 16:32

PUA = Pick Up Artists. It's what a lot of these types describe themselves as.

The autism spectrum encompasses a huge range - as a side note my autistic brother can be veeeery manipulative. But I don't think he understood it originally as "I can trick women into liking me", more as "I can finally learn to talk to women!".
Disagree that it's entitled men - primarily socially insecure/inept men with a liberal sprinkling of arseholes too.

UrbaneFox · 05/09/2015 16:27

what is PUA? My brother is on the autistic spectrum too, so he suspects, (although very high functioning with a very good job). he is very generous to me and to my kids. I know I'm his sister but insulting people to get what he wants wouldn't be his style AT ALL.

I think it's just entitled unattractive men. NOTHING to do with being on the autistic spectrum at all. In fact such manipulation through a means of insulting somebody and complimenting them at the same time would probably be most counter intuitive to a person on the spectrum

DawnOfTheDoggers · 05/09/2015 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SmugairleRoin · 05/09/2015 16:02

Urbane I think PUA attracts a lot of men who may be on the autism spectrum (undiagnosed...my AS brother has been taken in by this) and don't necessarily understand social graces.

Of course you also get sleazeballs but in the main I think those that are paying for these conferences and courses are genuinely socially inept.

The basic idea of "here is how you flirt" is not a bad thing but a lot of how it's developed - plates, ratings etc is not good.

UrbaneFox · 05/09/2015 15:58

smug it's not as innocent as that. It's designed to make women feel knocked off balance. A compliment and an insult, this puts an insecure woman (if she's not wise to it) in the mode of approval seeking.

These socially awkward men deliberately target women they think will be insecure. They don't care if they damage somebody's self-esteem or make her feel bad. The goal is to 'get sex' from women who normally wouldn't look at them.

UrbaneFox · 05/09/2015 15:48

Yes, my friend snogged him. It didn't go much further but I remember feeling disappointed in her that she fell for such bullshit. I was always more cynical I guess but that was put down to my being 'the less pretty one'' and it wasn't that. Obviously you go out with different friends and if I were out and a randomer insulted my friend as a means to compliment me, I'd be turned off.

ALassUnparalleled · 05/09/2015 15:43

You could try posting on FWR where you will likely get unanimous agreement it was sexist . For some even giving a compliment to another woman is unacceptable too as we are never supposed to do that.

In this case however, I'd say it was inappropriate and sexist.

miaowroar · 05/09/2015 15:30

This is weird. Why did he have to ask if she had red hair? Couldn't he see for himself?

I agree with Lemoncordial

Many men think that they're entitled to give their unsolicited opinion on how we look

She could have returned the compliment - "That's nice because you're the most persistent drunk I've ever met" - of course, this would have to have been after he'd repeated it a few times.

Couldn't he have just asked her to dance? (I know she would have refused but is that not what people do anymore?)

lemoncordial · 05/09/2015 15:19

It is a feminist issue. Many men think that they're entitled to give their unsolicited opinion on how we look, sometimes that's compliments sometimes it's criticisms. Either way it's part of male entitlement behaviour. Many women are not interested in what random men have to say, but they preserve and give us their opinion on how we look anyway.

WannabeLaraCroft · 05/09/2015 15:03

Thing is though - he didn't say "you're beautiful, for a red head" he said she was the most beautiful redhead he'd ever seen. Maybe he is surrounded by beautiful redheaded women on a daily basis, but thought your sister was even more beautiful. And because he was drunk, stupidly felt the need to go and tell her.

Non issue I'm afraid, overreaction from your sister.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 05/09/2015 14:59

Did your friend pull him, urbane?

Bit depressing if it worked!

SmugairleRoin · 05/09/2015 14:51

Negging and PUA stuff in general is for socially awkward men imo - I suppose there's a good idea there at heart in trying to teach them how to talk to women but my god they take it to an extreme. Most men don't bother or see it as a bit sad.

I don't think it's a feminist issue exactly, it sounds more like a lack of social skills issue.

UrbaneFox · 05/09/2015 14:46

I've been on the receiving end of it too. Luckily I just felt angered, I'd no idea what it was though. I remember a young asshole telling me and my flatmate that she was the prettier one of the two of us. I felt so annoyed with him for entering us in to a competition like that, making himself the judge of it. Of course when I got up and walked away and left her talkign to the asshole it would have been assumed I was pissed off at not havinng been deem the prettier one. But I was really fucked off to have somebody walk up to two women he didn't know from adam and make them entrants in some fucking competition we weren't in!

cocobean2805 · 05/09/2015 14:42

After a quick Google, its called 'the game" not "the rules". I was wrong! But yes, the premise of 'negging' is very common amongst a lot of young arseholes men and I've been on the receiving end of it on many occasions.

MrsGentlyBenevolent · 05/09/2015 14:35

Does absolutely every comment have to turn into a bloody feminist agenda? He was probably drunk/trying his luck. He failed. That's the end of the matter usually. Except on MN, where a man breathing too close requires much deconstruction, googling and references points .

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 05/09/2015 14:29

eg

"To her guy friends, “So what’s special about this one.”

If she’s talking tell her friends, “So do you guys ever get a word in edge wise?”"

Sorry that is way off track with the thread I'd just not heard the term before and wasn't aware that this was a "thing" and I'm genuinely quite taken aback.

If that's what that man was up to then I raise him from doubly unreasonable to triply unreasonable.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 05/09/2015 14:27

Oh my fucking god

If you google it there are whole websites telling men how do make women feel bad in order to improve the chances of getting her to fuck you:

"By negging women, you’ve indicated to her that you’re not interested in her over anyone else in the group. This is a new thing for her. She’ll feel the bitter sting of being just like everyone else. Her looks no longer give her all the power – because you’re not responding to her looks.

Because you’re demonstrating social value to the group at the same time she’s wondering, “Why isn’t this guy attracted to me? Why isn’t this guy paying attention to me? Who is this guy? How am I going to win this guy’s attention?”

Everyone wants to be liked. Everyone wants approval. No one wants to be ignored. The same holds true for beautiful women – even more so. Their whole reality is based on having power and having acceptance and adoration through their good looks. Take that away and their whole reality crumbles and they’ll do anything to get it back.

Negging women is ideal for really hot girls – 8s, 9s, and 10s. For an average girl (6s, 7s), you don’t want to use value zingers. All you need to do is demonstrate social value – you don’t need to lower hers. Hers wasn’t that high to begin with."

I'm really, really shocked, I mean I heard of PUA but haven't really looked at the sites or anything. And I thought it was a fairly niche thing. If there is a word for it in common parlance then this is fairly standard practice then.

Jeez.

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Roobix04 · 05/09/2015 14:26

I don't think it's really common but it does happen unfortunately. Luckily my sister is pretty confident and in s happy relationship.

OP posts:

UrbaneFox · 05/09/2015 14:24

There are conferences teaching men how to negg.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 05/09/2015 14:24

That's really old that book, I've never read it though. I thought it was aimed at women! Surprised that it has a chapter about how to demoralise women and grind them down. Unless I've got the purpose of the book wrong. Or it was a chapter to tell women about it so they don't fall for it!

Is this common then, is this a known thing that men do? I'm really taken aback. It's just so cynical and selfish and awful and just, gawd.

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