To think if you are the allergy expert in a restaraunt

[WhyCantIuseTheNameIWant]

Then you should have a basic understanding of food allergies?
Trying to find a suitable meal for 2 year old dd the other day.
She is allergic to wheat. Not gluten. Wheat.

Quite often, GF products are ok for her, as they are wheat free too.
But there are a couple of companies, mostly catering for coeliacs, that use modified wheat in their products. These are no good for my dd.

I understand that most people don't know the difference, or have no reason to investigate this. It's the first time I have had to deal with it myself.

But if you are the so-called allergy expert, you would know the difference? Or at least listen when the customer explains what the poor child can eat?

[WhyCantIuseTheNameIWant]

I appreciate we are in the minority. Not everybody wants every ingredient listed on the menu. It would take forever to read!
But some places seem to make it hard by keeping the "food bible" hidden and giving answers to questions that you haven't asked...
Last night in Pizza Hut was a good example of good service.
We ordered a wheat free pizza for dd. young waitress asked is that the same as gluten free? I replied in here, yes i think it is, but your menu has changed recently. She went and fetched the book. Confirmed it was still ok for dd. and then she came back and said the corn chips in the salad were safe for her too. Something I had just avoided in the past, not even thought about giving her! So,although she didn't know initially, she was polite, helpful and found out more information which benefitted us.

[WhyCantIuseTheNameIWant]

I have never relied on anybody for telling me what my dd can eat. But I do need them to give me accurate information about what is in their food.
It makes no difference if they pass me a folder or if they read it to me.
But it does make a difference if they tell me something is safe as it is gluten free. It might be ok, or it might be made of codex wheat.
My question was " should somebody who claims to know about allergies (working in a restaurant) actually listen to what you need to avoid?"

[LionessAtHeart]

I'm surprised that there isn't a requirement for restaurants to display allergens for each menu item.
They do now have to for the 14 most common allergens - at least they do if you ask anyway. This does include being able to name (or having written information on) things that contain wheat, whether or not it contains gluten (it is up to the restaurant if they want to actually say gluten free or not - advice seems to be not to).

OP - YANBU they should have at least been able to provide you with a written list.

[Charis1]

Basically I am allergic to wheat.

no you are not. You are allergic to one or more component of wheat. You are not allergic to wheat. That might be something you say to a baby of say three or four, if they can't actually grasp the difference, but not to an adult.

[LazyLouLou]

Your point isn't valid because every single person here so far has said precisely the opposite, that they don't rely on restaurant staff to make choice, but they do rely on for accurate information. Can you tell the difference?

Well, you'd have a point if you had left that sentence in context... the bit where I said, yes ask for advice but rely upon yourself and that my problem is with the laziness that does rely on others in such circumstances, as the OP seems to have with her 'allergy expert' and 'it is my first time'.

I have only disagreed with 2 people, you and one other, who seem determined not to understand that!

And thank you for apologising for the rather personal comments and unfounded assumptions you made upthread

[saltnpepa]

Also helpfully, I have noticed much of it is about timing too. If you get to a restaurant at 12.00 for lunch you leave the staff able to meet your needs because they're not busy, arrive at 1.00 and it is more easy for them to make a mistake or you to feel like a nuisance.

[saltnpepa]

My point is valid, it should never be the restaurant staff that are relied upon for food choices. Your point isn't valid because every single person here so far has said precisely the opposite, that they don't rely on restaurant staff to make choice, but they do rely on for accurate information. Can you tell the difference?

[paxtecum]

I'm with LazyLou. I have many food intolerances. If I inadvertently eat something I shouldn't I can get a three day headache that leaves me barely able to function as well as gastric symptions.
I can't imagine having life threatening allergies and putting my life in other people's hands just so I can have the pleasure of eating out.

I would also worry that maybe a new chief has used a different oil, or maybe slightly changed a recipe.

I really wouldn't like to run or work in any eating establishment these days.

[rumbleinthrjungle]

No disrespect intended but why would you want to take anyone with a severe allergy out for a meal.

Flipping heck

Because eating out is a social event and something people like to do? Why should people who can't fit the bog-standard norm have to accept that being closed to them? Your reasons seem to be basically that they make you work too hard. I wish you luck that your eyes never have to be opened by personal experience.

Eating out has become really, really difficult since I got diagnosed with two separate intolerances. On one business trip recently in a rural area I spent two days starving hungry as if you couldn't eat fish and chips, ice cream or pasties at the bakers you couldn't eat at all within a five mile radius and I didn't have the time available to travel further when I realised. The fish and chip shop did say they did one gluten free day per month - whoopee. It's a nice concession, but unfortunately I need to eat 365 days a year. I lived off the foods I'd brought with me that could survive in the car in mid summer and not need cooking or preparation: largely fruit and nuts.

Unless you live with allergies or intolerances yourself its difficult to understand the impact, rather like you don't realise how anti buggy/pushchair the world is until you try getting around with one! I've learned by bitter experience to state the intolerances clearly before giving the order, again with the order and then to check yet again when the food arrives at the table (or in coffee shops to watch like a hawk that soya milk not real milk ends up in the cup through the order not being properly read), as often the message gets lost on the way due to lack of a clear system for busy staff. Coloured cards, plates or trays to put with orders would be simple enough. Often in a restaurant I have to scan the menu carefully for anything at all on it that I can have to be able to join in with a social occasion with others who get to choose from a wide range of dishes from what they are in the mood for, and in many chains the dishes for people with intolerances or allergies are fairly token rather than any thought given to providing an enjoyable meal.

Independent (expensive) restaurants are by far the best since they cook from scratch and will adapt individually, but are often not that child or budget friendly. There are a couple of chain restaurant utter gems in the area who do go above and beyond and are properly geared up rather than doing grudging token inclusion, Bella Pasta being outstanding.

[LazyLouLou]

Even hay fever is a 'wheat allergy', so of course it is 'a thing'.

[auntpetunia]

Eh charis1 *there is no such thing as an "allergy to wheat" really

I am severely wheat intolerant as diagnosed by a senior consultant in the gastrointestinal department of my local hospital. Basically I am allergic to wheat.

[Charis1]

someone may have already said this, but there is no such thing as an "allergy to wheat"

You can have an allergy to a component of wheat.

What component is your DD allergic to?

[LazyLouLou]

Yeah! Like, that's what I said, saltnpepa. How very fucking pleasant of you to suggest that I meant your nephew, anyone's kids, are totally expendable.

Did you read what I actually posted? How I manage eating out on a regular basis? Or did you just focus on the one sentence you could easily take offence at? I know you missed the deliberate pissed off, irony in my first post - even after I posted very clearly that I was doing it!

And yes, swelling up from time to time, in an era before epi pens, was just a blast! Do you want the details? Shall I tell you how bad the blistering is, on lips, inside mouth, gullet etc? Would my tales of slow asphyxiation titillate you enough, fascinate you into believing I have an allergy and know what I am talking about?

My point is valid, it should never be the restaurant staff that are relied upon for food choices. Ask for information, but never rely upon it. Had I ever relaxed that rule I probably would have died.

As a child I was lucky. Peppers were almost unheard of back then, tomatoes are easy to spot as are potatoes. I was described as a fussy eater and shouted at a lot "All those starving children in Africa" etc. It wasn't until the mid/late 70s when pre-packaged foods became more the norm that a Pot Noodle nearly killed me... as in really did nearly kill me. That episode, at the age of 12, was what got me a clear diagnosis.

The good thing back then was that the foods that cause me the most trouble were not readily available. But that brought its own problems. I think I first met a pepper in my mid 20s, into the 1980s, and I had no idea it was so very poisonous to me. I doubt anyone at that time could have told me they were of the same family as tomatoes... cue trip number 2 to intensive care. Even then no one could clearly tell me it was a bell pepper that caused it as the allergy is very rare and, apparently, sounds so very unlikely.

So yes, I am here to cause trouble, tbh. Trouble for anyone who is trying to promote such tosh as 'allergy experts' and blaming restaurant staff. That is a ridiculous perspective to take when your own/child's health is at risk!

[Eastpoint]

I went to Wagamama's with a Swiss friend who has various allergies and intolerances and they have a special book which shows which dishes contain which ingredients. She was so impressed, it was lovely for her to be able to eat out. Maybe there should be a thread listing places where people have had positive experiences so they get the benefit of extra customers?

[saltnpepa]

'Intolerances' can be as severe as many allergies, so it's best not to write off intolerances as 'not that bad' any more Not true. Simply not fact. You can not immediately die as a result of an intolerance. This is medical fact. Yes it might cause debilitating symptoms which if left unmanaged may result in serious implications. But immediate death from lactose intolerance is not true. Sadly it is this sort of misinformation being bandied about that makes it difficult for people who suffer a life-threatening allergy. Not sure if you've ever been with someone when that happens? They do actually start to die.

[trufflehunterthebadger]

I used to work as a chef and i always tried really, really hard to accomodate people with dietary needs to give them interesting choices rather than boring fruit salad etc . Having had a coeliac student for a month and a few lactose-intolerant Friends i would say i had a reasonable understanding of food allergies.

However i had no idea that wheat allergy was different to gluten and would have assumed you meant coeliac and catered accordingly. I think it's unfair of you to imply that the lady referred to by a colleague as "our allergy expert" was ignorant when your DD clearly has relatively unusual and confusing allergy and she probably has never come across it before

[HopefulHamster]

'Intolerances' can be as severe as many allergies, so it's best not to write off intolerances as 'not that bad' any more. Allergies are generally more immediate reactions, intolerences more delayed (vastly generalising). If someone has severe bleeding from their bowel I wouldn't say 'oh it's only an intolerance' to them. I'm a member of some CMPA (cow's milk protein allergy) FB groups and it can be very difficult to tell apart allergy vs intolerance sometimes, or at least they can have the same level of debilitating affects on people.

[saltnpepa]

LazyLou "swelling up every now and then" is not the same as a life threatening allergy. Ooh I tell you what I'll let my DN eat what he likes when we're out to save people who are paid to actually do their job and I'll let him swell up a little bit, oh and then he will die. Nevermind eh, we shouldn't have taken him out to eat. I think you're here to cause trouble tbh and ought to wander off somewhere else.

[Corygal]

There's a thing called Oral Allergy Syndrome that covers tomatoes. And yes, I'm sure you can be, but genuine allergies would be rare and a lot of it would be food intolerance.

[LazyLouLou]

Uphread I was referred to as sheltered, naïve.

Well, I am 50 years old and have an allergy that few people believe. I am moderately allergic to the nightshade family: tomato, pepper and potato.

Think about that for a moment: 50 years old, lived most of my life before any legislation, any awareness campaigns etc. My allergy means I have to watch for:

Bread products - lots a have potato
Vodka, would you believe some of it is spud based?
Breakfast cereals
Sunny Delight orange juice drink
Flavored alcoholic drink mixes such as margarita and daiquiri mix
Some cream cheese, yoghurts, sour cream, cheesecakes, soft ice creams
ALL commercial bakery sweet dough mixes - doughnuts, cakes, coffeecakes, sweetrolls, muffins, quick breads. I once went into the store room and read the labels to a friend who worked in a bakery, very scary how much potato starch is used
Cajun spices
Cayenne pepper
any packaged prepared sauce mixes
Almost every meal in Chinese restaurant foods
mayonnaise - read the fine print, yay! paprika
salad dressings - once you get the mayo idea and read the label it will say paprika or bell peppers or spices, or seasonings. Which I have to assume includes peppers
soups; your mothers home-made, tinned or dried mixes
Hot dogs, pepperoni and sausages - they contain either paprika or cayenne pepper or both)
pimento - easy to miss when stuffed in olives but it is a pepper
pickles - Oh look, cayenne pepper is often included in pickling spice
Most pre-packaged snacks
Anything described as “Italian”
Anything that lists “spices or seasonings” as an ingredient

And don't forget drugs for headaches and many others.

I eat out quite often, my parents used to ignore much of my allergy, it was too difficult to cope with, so I just swelled up every now and then and they avoided things that obviously had tomato in. No one ever believed potato could be a problem. Although prior to the rise in pre-packaged foods I was usually OK. I hate to recall what happened with my first Pot Noodle

As I got older I had to work it out for myself, no doctor took me seriously in the 80s. As I got older and I reduced ingestion at home, eating out became easier - powdered peppers seem to be the worst offenders.

BUT I still have to read the whole damn menu myself, ask the chef, check when the dish arrives and take full responsibility for my own food health.

Too do anything else is unthinkable. To try to blame a member of staff for poor decisions is pointless, you take full responsibility, anything else is Russian Roulette.

So I eat in small restaurants that make everything from scratch. I explain abut packet mixes and potato starch. Explain that black pepper and sweet potato are absolutely fine and I can usually tolerate some hot seasoning.

So, I do know how hard it is, but I wouldn't set out to move blame onto restaurant staff. If, as OP said It's the first time I have had to deal with it myself. I would have done my research first and made the best choice of restaurant I could.

[ApparentlyImDoingItAllWrong]

Yes, we have cmpi and can't tolerate soya either but people assume soya would be fine. Its not an allergy so less scary but still I don't like people assuming rather than asking, especially at school. If they make an assumption about soya we'll have a rotten few days, if they make an assumption about other things then it's 999!

[AuditAngel]

My DD's, one is lactose intolerant , the other is sensitive to lactose. I realise this is not an allergy and the worst we have ever suffered is diarrhoea and vomiting. Usually the outcome is tummy aches, the older DD is reminded that making some choices may result in a sore tummy.

But I am fed up with being told that soya milk is the best thing to give them, as DD2 is asthmatic and I have been told to avoid Soya for her. I have spent 3 years at nursery sending in lacto free milk (decanted) and being told they can give her their soya milk.

[colleysmill]

Ds1 used to react to tomatoes - rash, upset tummy, burning nappy rash, etc and was diagnosed with an allergy when he was small but outgrew it by age 3.

Ds 2 is cow's milk intolerant (fingers crossed though as just started the milk ladder) and the biggest thing I've learnt over the last 18 months is check check and double check. I'm always amazed by the number of foods that change the ingredients without warning - never presume a safe food is safe.

At least most labelling is easier to read these days

[ApparentlyImDoingItAllWrong]

SaltnPepa I agree that you can find great service in small, independent restaurants. We had a fantastic one near us before we moved. But realistically it is very hard to find good independent places wherever you happen to be. If we happen to be in Glasgow visiting friends or Bristol and we need to eat out then, not knowing any of the local eateries, the best bet for a meal we can safely enjoy is a chain restaurant.

For every good, helpful chef in an independent there are just as many who aren't in the least bit interested in catering for allergies, I've learnt that from experience. Also, choosing to go less often but more expensive isn't a choice that fits in with real life (unless a family are well off) because eating out at events and day trips etc is a part of life. To cut back on eating out would mean cutting back on life. I'm not talking about the 'oo, let's go out for a nice meal' situations, I'm talking about real life situations.
For example, it's 4.30pm, we've left a family funeral, the traffic is bad, we realise we won't get home before the kids need to eat, we need to find somewhere to eat. On those type of days we can't just choose to go to an expensive independent little place for great service because we'd bankrupt ourselves soon enough.
Eating out for a planned meal, a treat say, where I choose the restaurant is easy, the problems usually occur when we need to eat unexpectedly somewhere or where there is very limited choice.

[ApparentlyImDoingItAllWrong]

Gosh, yes you can be allergic to tomato. I know several people that are, they swell up and get hives, very nasty. www.healthline.com/health/allergies/tomatoes-recipes