To get tough with DS?

[pickingstrawberries]

DS is 8 and within the last few months has become really pretty rude.

He was always lovely - quiet and thoughtful and considerate, and he still is - to other people. I on the other hand get told to 'shut up, stop going on' - yesterday things got a bit heated over clothes on the bannister of all things and he hurled them downstairs at me.

He's had a lot to cope with - new sibling and he was an only child for seven years so it's bound to be a big transition but I've tried the lovey understanding stuff and I think he is getting worse

AIBU to get tough with him? I don't mind forgotten stuff, mess, dirt, noise, but I absolutely hate rudeness.

[80srockheart]

Doesn't it depend on what you mean by 'getting tough' with him? I think children respond to firm boundaries but he probably also needs understanding and kindness with a new sibling.

[pickingstrawberries]

I can't really leave her as she's breastfed.

I think he does have boundaries, but ignores them

[ladyflower23]

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if someone has already said this but I had my dd when my ds was 3.5 and he absolutely HATED me!! his behavior was terrible and I kept letting things go because I knew he was upset but then thought perhaps my letting things go came across as not caring anymore. So I went back to normal I.e boundaries and picking him up on bad behaviour and things started to improve. I also arranged for my parents to have dd for an hour one morning a week so me and ds coups do a class together. That one on one time completely away from the baby helped us rebuild our relationship which had got pretty bad. It's a difficult time

[pickingstrawberries]

Thank you, that is really helpful.

Sometimes my old lovely boy is here, other times I've got this rude, unpleasant, snide stranger in my house.

He's just growing up, isn't he?

[BertieBotts]

I really like the "Your X Year Old" series by Louise Bates Ames. They are a little dated now, being written in the late 80s, but I usually find them spot on. Looking at the "look inside" pages on amazon for the eight year old book, it says that eight year olds can be aggressive and can justify their aggression to themselves by convincing themselves that they are being attacked.

So from that I would say to withdraw, not engage as that is just feeding the attention/argument cycle, just calmly state "That's rude, I don't want to hear you use words like that" and give a bit of space - send him to his room for example. If he's throwing stuff and it's not breakable then remove yourself (his audience) and ignore and get him to clear it up himself later. If it is breakable then I don't know - intervene I suppose.

It sounds as though he's reacting to something he feels is unfair so it would be a good idea to repeat the phrase "We'll talk about it when you calm down." "You don't sound ready to discuss this yet" "When you can talk without shouting I'm happy to talk to you." etc etc. And then make some discussion time when he is calm but insist that he is completely calm before you will begin that and be prepared to take a five minute break/time out in the discussion if it becomes apparent he's not ready.

As for sanctions you could turn it around and make like a school report card where he has to achieve certain behaviour expectations over the day and at bedtime you give him a number of stars or points he achieved which he can exchange for something - pocket money, privilege, treats, special trip out, etc. I think as your younger one is a baby this will fizzle out by the time the younger one is old enough to notice, so it won't be rewarding him for normal/expected behaviour.

[popperdoodles]

we don't really do sanctions as such. we ignore where possible, always praise him when he is being lovely or is particularly polite. he gets sent out of the room if he is being really awful, more so I don't loose my temper. I have sat him down and explained to him what it feels like when he is rude and what other people will think of him. our last resort is banning him from ipad/PlayStation as a consequence but we always give him a way he can earn it back so he had an incentive to change his behaviour rather than just feel cross and punished. with him punishment alone just leads to worse behaviour

[pickingstrawberries]

Ah, we don't have a TV - I confiscate his phone though.

[pickingstrawberries]

I know and I wouldn't jump on him for little stuff but he just seems to hate me sometimes and it upsets me.

[SnapesCapes]

For sanctions TV removal is the main one for DS1 at the minute, or a day away from all screens.

It's difficult as we have two DCs so I have to try not to punish both with the sanctions if one has misbehaved.

[SnapesCapes]

I think it's a bit of a combination of getting tough on rudeness, but also remembering to really notice and praise the lovely stuff. DS1 is 9 and is suddenly getting a bit Kevin-the-teenager if he's asked to do anything. But he's also kind, and brilliant fun to be around, so while I correct any rudeness, I try really hard to outweigh it with praise and encouragement and a bit of one-to-one time now it's the holidays.

Also, I've had to learn to pick my battles a little. Getting cross about every misdemeanour was making us all miserable.

[pickingstrawberries]

That's what mine is like - one minute won't leave my side then the next is just being horrible.

Thank you for such reassuring posts.

What sanctions do you give when they cross the line?

[popperdoodles]

I have an 8 year old who is going through a rude stage. It started to creep in at school too a tiny bit. I feel he is at an age where he is desperate to be grown up like his teenage brothers ( who are mostly a delight btw). the attitude, know it all, bad language etc seems to be his way of trying to appear grown up. Some days he is a cuddly mummies boy and want to do activities and play with his toys, other days he glues himself to the ipad and won't have anything to do with me.
we are focusing on spending time together so he understands that when you are pleasant company people want to do things with you. also we are trying to be the best role models by always speaking nicely to each other. if he is rude I calmly ask him to not speak to me like that and continue ignoring his request until he does or continue my request until he engages properly. we have good days and bad, it's a phase, I hope.

[pickingstrawberries]

I don't find 'zip it' funny, sorry.

Yes, banning stuff isn't the definitive answer but it is a concern nonetheless.

[Andro]

The 'zip it' comment made me chuckle. My friend's eldest DD told her mum to zip it (she'd have been about 9 or so). The conversation went something like:

F: DD, I'd like you to do XXX for me please.
D: Zip it mum, I don't want to hear it.
F: DD, it is very rude to speak like that. How would you like it?
D: I hate it, but that's never stopped you telling me to zip it. Is is OK for grown ups to be rude?
F:

[Dancergirl]

Banning stuff is only ok if you can enforce it. You might be able to ban it from your own home but not from friends houses, schools, libraries, online resources and other external influences.

[pickingstrawberries]

It is so difficult. Banning stuff is part of trying to ensure he has good role models around him hopefully.

[Dancergirl]

Waste of time banning stuff, sorry. Even if you don't let them watch the tv programmes, they might watch them at friend's houses, read the books etc. Far better to explain what's acceptable and what's not (and why HH and TB are not!).

[Jaxinthebox]

Another household where HH and TB were banned! My DS and DD are now almost 16 and 12. They do come out of the other side... it gets better for a while and then you get the hormones, the teenage strops and backchat.

Consistency and boundaries and Ive learned to not react on my first impulse. bloody hard I try to stay calm, but dont give in.

this parenting is a bloody minefield sometimes.

[Dancergirl]

OP, you sound like a caring parent and it's good that want to do something about it. Definitely a good idea to put boundaries in place now then hopefully the teen years might be a little easier!

[pickingstrawberries]

I was yes ssd, I honestly wouldn't have dared tell my parents to zip it at eight maybe at 13

It hurts because he doesn't speak to his dad like that, or to other adults. It makes me feel like he has no respect for me.

[oldgrandmama]

My oldest grandson went through that stage too, around 8 - 9 years old. With his mum and with me. I perfected the 'death stare' too! He's now the most charming 12 year old and really good company. I agree with other MNers here - hormonal changes start quite early these days and are responsible for a whole load of behavioural issues.

[Dancergirl]

Yes I can understand picking our 8 year old is the youngest of 3 girls and I'm finding her behaviour a lot more challenging than our older two who are now 12 and 14. They were really well behaved as younger children, hardly ever rude, really very few problems. I am now eating my words with dd3, she sounds so spoilt and bratty sometimes. Goes to show it's more about the child than the parenting because she's had the same upbringing. I DO pick her up on rudeness but I hope with a good example set it will right itself in time.

[ssd]

were you really polite at 8, pickingstrawberries?

[pickingstrawberries]

I'm a really polite person Dancer which is why I'm so horrified at how rude my son is being.

I don't care about noise, or mess, or dirt, or daft behaviour but rudeness really upsets me and I do take it quite personally.

[Dancergirl]

We also have an intermittent problem with rudeness with our 8 year old dd.

I think it's really important to look long term and remember that all kids can be rude and cheeky at times. I don't mean that you should overlook rudeness but even more than picking them up on it, it's really important to model excellent manners yourself. Be polite every time you speak to a family member, waiters, shop staff etc. Children really pick up on how you speak to people and they will realise with maturity that that's the right way.