In insisting on a being married before I'll become a sahm?

[Feminstsahm]

Up to now myself and OH have earned the same amount, worked 50% each, and split kids sick days etc all 50/50. He had a bit of a strop at the weekend 'its not fair he does so much more than other Dad's' . Of course I told him to grow the fuck up as we have kids and he works PT so of course he does half the sah parenting. He has amiditted before that he would much prefer it if I would go PT and cover sick days etc. The kids are little still so this is about 1 week out of every 6 weeks and is stressing us all out with trying to fit in work still, esp our jobs don't really care if we are off we still have to get the work done.

I'm being made redundant in 5 months anyway so it is a good time to take a break, esp as I want to do some more studying to find work near to where we live. We can keep the kids in PT nusery so I could study PT.
Of course I could find work further away and travel but that puts even more of the day to day parenting onto him.

So AIBU to say I'll only cover the childcare in the afternoons, nights wakings, sick days provided we get married and all wages are shared equally so we both have the same disposable income after all household bills are paid, and we would need to pay into a private pension for me as I'm losing my employer pension?

Also evening childcare, housework etc will still need to be shared (although I'd do what I can in the day) so we both have equal freetime.

I'm happy to have a prenup to protect our own premarrige assests and ay income arising from these, he has more of these than me and this has been a worry for him previously.

I know this sounds very unromantic but I only see marrige as a finacial contract and have no interest in the relegious or party side of things.

[NickyEds]

I think perhaps another thing to consider is your partners response to marriage. We've talked about it many times and not bothered because we have no religious reasons, no family pressure, no substantial assets (other than dps pension) etc. Since having ds I've said that I'd quite like to get married so that I automatically get his stuff if he snuffs it (now that's romance)!! His response was "fair enough, when?" which is quite telling. I have a friend who who have really cut their hours since having a baby with a man who won't discuss marriage at all, won't tell her what he earns, any of his finances- which is terrifying to me.

[ChickenLaVidaLoca]

Spousal maintenance is still relatively common amongst a certain income bracket and in certain circumstances. If you're on an average income, it's more likely the SAHP will get a greater share of the modest assets of the marriage- so 40k of the 60k equity perhaps.

But yes, a lot of the extensive protections and benefits offered by marriage relate to money. So if you don't have any assets, pensions or two pennies to rub together they're not so relevant. Particularly if you have NOKs and/or get on sufficiently well with each other's parents that a situation where you get chucked out of the deathbed isn't a worry. I would say it's better to think about what will happen in the event of death than divorce, since the former is certain and the latter just a realistic possibility.

[NickyEds]

Chicken- With the exception of spousal maintenance, which as I understand it is very rarely granted it seems that there are few protections offered by marriage in the event of divorce and within what I would say are ordinary finances (ie no one's set to inherit a fortune!). I'm always when I hear "I would never SAH without being married" on mn. Unmarried SAHM gets left by partner but has joint mortgage etc, Married SAHM gets left by partner- both are, presumably left without a job and entitled to maintenance only. I just don't see the big fuss in being married to "protect" yourself. Surely the only way to fully protect yourself is to stay in work??- and I say that as a SAHM.

[ChickenLaVidaLoca]

NickyEds you actually wouldn't necessarily be entitled to some of the pension in the event of a split if married. You definitely wouldn't if unmarried, but when married it depends on both the assets and the circumstances. There's no hard and fast rule as such, although you're right that you have more of a chance of it if married.

Protections/benefits you can acquire through marriage and marriage only include: use of any nil rate IHT band your spouse didn't use, ability to transfer over 1k of unused personal allowance between spouses, potential to challenge will that doesn't make provision for you, widow's pension, top slot in the intestacy provisions, automatic NOK, possibility of spousal maintenance and share of assets in the event of divorce. Obviously not all these are relevant or desirable for everyone, so I'm not saying you should get married because of them, but that's a (no doubt inconclusive) list.

However, this is all information based on UK law. It doesn't apply to OP.

[Skiptonlass]

Post docs shouldn't be asking for 3-7 years experience! Your postdoc should BE those 3-5 years post PhD. If you've not got tenure or at least some great fellowship arrangement after that you start falling into that "too expensive, too specialised" bucket and it's tough to get out. Nicky eds is right - you either take off or you sink. It's a really harsh world. Working part time just isn't enough.

Definitely concentrate on your career and get the language up to speed. That's what I'm struggling with at the moment, trying to get a decent grasp of the language! I left academia after my first postdoc and moved to industry - still a tough field but much better security and pay.

I think what he wants is a maid and what you want is an equal partner....Hope it works out for you :)

[Feminstsahm]

We both work pt but I also study and he has a small business.
Among his colleagues he is on track but maybe its a slow moving university given our location. post docs are asking for three to seven yrs experience. Got to be honest I don't know much about the industry though.
Redundancy is because my industry has imploded in this area so finding other job is hard. I can speak the language to school level so I think study for a few yrs is probably the way to go and I can afford that alone with the kids if needed.

Thanks ladies thinking it through with your help sahm decisions are best left until kids are older and I've seen how OH acts in the meantime. And I'll def keep my options open by studying and working as much as possible and having some savings on hand just in case.

Obv he is nicer than this post makes him sound but still no reason not to be prepared if I can be.

[NickyEds]

I'm not sure how much marriage would "protect" you. I often hear this on mn but so far the only answer I've found is that you'd be entitled to some of his pension in the event of a split but I'm guessing he doesn't have a great one if he's only just qualified. I'm not saying don't marry I'm just not convinced that it offers any rock solid protection.

I'm a SAHM and dp and I aren't married (yet!). We don't have any assets (no house or anything) so in the event of a split half of nothing is nothing! We're considering marriage purely because of his (cracking) pension that ATM is one of our biggest outgoings and our biggest investment.

My dp is a academic also. Is your dps Phd in science?? If it is his current set up would have major alarm bells ringing. As Skiptonlass said most careers in this field take off from the get go. No way on earth would dp have got tenure working part time (or even only full time hours-think 70+ a week). Not getting funding for your own research isn't a great sign. It sounds as though your career is on the better footing tbh.

Being a SAHM is really not for everyone. Sorry op but it doesn't really sound like something you want to do. It sounds like your dp wants a wife to do "wifework". Even if your finances were totally secure is this really what you want?? I've always wanted to SAH with my kids. Always. Yet there are days when I think I'll go mad! If your heart's not in it and you don't have to do it then don't. Marriage won't change a thing.

[ChickenLaVidaLoca]

I suspect OP is in a country with smaller ML entitlement than the UK.

OP I really would get some legal advice before making any decisions, if you've not already. All the stuff we usually say on these threads about mirror wills, assets and the like may not even apply where you are. If you're going to make this decision based on practicalities rather than wanting marriage for its own sake, you need to be sure what they are.

[Athenaviolet]

Use your redundancy to study and get a better job, but be very wary of being a sahm, in another country, in a rural area, with a mil needing care, with a dp who seems to have some rather retrograde ideas of the role of women

^^this

There's also a couple of things I don't get- you say you split childcare/wife work 50/50 but he works pt, you ft. Is that right? How does that work?

You say the dcs are often sick- I'd look into the causes of this. One week out of 6 isn't normal.

Tbh your dc's career prospects don't sound good, certainly not good enough to support a family of 4. He's 2 years post doc but only doing temp pt lecturing? How long before he gives up on academia and looks for a proper full time job? Are you going to end up subsidising him for years?

Your youngest is only 4 months. How come you're not still on mat leave? I hope your redundancy is nothing to do with you being pregnant/taking mat leave? At that age I wouldn't call being at home ft sahming I'd call it being on mat leave. I wouldn't make any big decisions until the youngest is 1. You must be nackered working ft with 2 such young dcs and a dp who only does 50/50 childcare/wife work. No wonder you are feeling burnt out!

In the long term what you need is a good ft job and good childcare and a dp who contributes equally both in paid and unpaid work. A wedding ring isn't going to solve any of your problems, and if dc's financial/work situation stays as it is you could see yourself having to give him your hard earned cash/pension down the line.

[Duckdeamon]

Agree with PPs suggesting seeking new paid work for after the redundancy even if you get married as you would be less financially vulnerable.

There seem to ve risks that you get married as a sensible condition of becoming a SaHM and he sees this as a "done deal" and gets angry if you dont then want to be or remain a SaHM. Or that you don't get married, are made redundant and he makes it difficult for you to get new work.

With respect to his comment about doing more than other dads and seemingly resenting this and the impact on his career, I have had similar from (full-time!) DH and the one SAHD we know, who has since returned to work FT. Because so many men do so little childcare or work compromise, some men who do more than "the norm" think they're the bees knees and that their partners should be grateful! They compare themselves with other men instead of their partners or women they know who are parents. Plus some have a general sense of entitlement.

[Feminstsahm]

We've only discussed as it superficially up to now I've been dead set against being a sahp under any circumstances and he felt the same hence the 50/50 split which except for that comment seemed to be working out ok. Maybe its just the redundancy making me think about it rather than common sense which is why I'm glad I posted.
As things stand now a marriage offers nothing as I earn half the money and we already have mirror wills.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Yes TBH I think youwould be better off sticking to your career rather than becoming SAHM. It really does sound as though he wants you to be SAHM purely becaue he has the penis and is not keen on the idea of you having a successful career rather than obeying and serving him.

[ChickenLaVidaLoca]

Impossible to be sure without knowing more about the country you're in, but you would BU to give up work at all in these circumstances.

[MissDuke]

Have you actually discussed this with OH?

[SuperFlyHigh]

Op just a few thoughts what if he doesn't want to get married?

Also (I worked for a solicitors) I was told that due to changes in law prenups aren't 100% guaranteed.

I would keep working, separate bank accounts but look at other stuff re his mother etc maybe see what can be discussed. What happens if your parents get sick etc?

skiptonlass makes good points too.

I wouldn't 100% share your thoughts with DH but certainly research the finer points.

[Viviennemary]

YANBU. I wish more woman would insist on this before committing themselves to having children. I've never heard anything so ridiculous as a man who won't commit to marriage but is quite happy to have children.

[Feminstsahm]

Thanks, lots to think about . I am already looking to study so I can try a sideways move in my career so will continue looking into that either way.
We do need to think more about his job though. He is lecturing and has written/ published 5 articles over the last 2 yrs but nothing permanent work wise. So not a great base for me not working over a long period.

I don't think this an engineered setup as I was here for work before we met and so far he is doing half of everything as we had agreed pre children.
I have no family support in the UK so it would be easier to live alone here with the kids as childcare is subsidised. And tbh I like it here with him or not.

I'm still listening but need to go off and have a think.

[Skiptonlass]

Marriage IS a business contract. Yes, in this day and age it's not to weld none lineages together but it is the best protection for the female partner. You're not BU. you're being extremely sensible. Check the enforceability of prenups in your country by the way, they're not as enforceable here as people think.

So no, do NOT become a sahm without marriage.

However, reading your other posts, I'd question whether you should become a sahm at all. For the following reasons. Forgive my bluntness.

1. Your other half is in academia. I was an academic and I'm well aware of how hard tenure is to get. It's madness to rely on only his wage if he's not tenured. Doubly so if he's not gotten 'promotions' (post doc post? Lecturer?) right off the bat. He's on soft money and going part time is not going to help. Do not rely on his income alone. If you're not doing well straight out of your PhD, it's not an indicator of a stellar career ahead (sorry, that's incredibly harsh, but like I said, it's a world I know well.) can he look outside academia? Or is he thoroughly sucked into the 'leaving, even to become a CEO, is failure' cult type shit?
   

1. His attitude to childcare. You're both parents. In the situation he's in he damn well should be doing half the childcare and you should have equal free time. Does he want a medal for doing what he should be doing?
   

1. Elderly mil next door. I second the awwwwwwoooogah! Klaxon. Oh dear. You're going to end up doing all that, you know. All of it. Women's work, you see....
   

1. You're an expat. I'm an expat too. It's really easy to lose your sense of identity if you don't work.
   

The better scenario in my mind would be him being more in the sahp role.

Use your redundancy to study and get a better job, but be very wary of being a sahm, in another country, in a rural area, with a mil needing care, with a dp who seems to have some rather retrograde ideas of the role of women,

[Jux]

Definitely what Sylvan said, but actually I would say don't become a SAHP at all. He really sounds as if he has another agenda.

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

I think if you put all that to him he'll suddenly decide that actually he doesn't mind doing "more than the other Dad's"

Re your post YANBU but since you are not in the UK we have no idea if you enjoy the legal protections of being married that we have in the UK so you should caveat our thoughts on that basis. Assuming pre-nups are valid then that sounds sensible provided that they make provision for his children also so it's worth considering doing Wills at the same time.

Generally speaking, in your shoes, I would take a bit of time off with the redundancy cash and get back to work as soon as possible. I would not become a SAHM, though I regularly think about it when life is overwhelming me.

I think you need to try to get a couple of emergency babysitters sorted to cover inset days etc or both work FT so you have some more cash to deal with it. That assumes your salaries are x2 times the cost of childcare though.

[Justusemyname]

Sunnyshores, get proposing. Then divorce him if you still don't like him.

[Sunnyshores]

I thought I was really clever, a real feminist. I refused to marry my partner, to be a wife and a chatel.

I gave up my high earning job to be a SAHM (admittidly I did hate my job) ...fast forward 12 years and I now do everything house/child/family related and all without any help, support, or even any interest or acknowledgement from him. It crept up on me slowly, I wanted to let him concentrate on his career and gradually he did less and less and here we are..

Im trapped, treated like Im stupid, I 'work' 7-9 every day, while he is so exhausted by his 'real' work. He sees his part of the deal as being the man - providing a beautiful house, new house, foreign holidays etc. Im so resentful and hate what Ive become, but as we're not married after 25 years and 2 kids I/we are entitled to nothing from him at all.

Sorry what a moan! Anyway my message is that being a SAHM isnt for everyone and shouldnt be undertaken without both of you agreeing the long term aims and goals. And unfortunately I should have married the git and then I could have divorced him, got a share of the house and finances that I/we deserve and moved on with my life.

[howabout]

YANBU but if you are planning to keep pre marriage assets separate and can agree payments equivalent to an appropriate salary and pension solely in your name and post marriage assets held jointly I am not convinced what extra protection marriage gives. It does however make it harder for you to disentangle if the relationship breaks down. My perception is also that married fathers have more rights regarding DC than unmarried which again may not be what you want?

[PenguinBollards]

YANBU ~ search back over the last week or so, there's a lengthy thread about unmarried women getting left with nothing when a relationship hits the rocks and the lack of legal protection against such a thing happening. Perhaps make your DH read it too ~ marriage, or a vast raft of copper-bottomed legal agreements. Anything less is very risky.

[VivienScott]

Didn't get married, gave up good job in city to be sahm, lost ten years of income, pensions etc on the promise I didn't need to work (which I didn't at the time) he shagged around now I'm entitled to nothing and receiving benefits as can only get a menial p/t job. Had we got married, I wouldn't need to be on benefits as I'd get maintenance (saving tax payer money), I'd also have been able to keep my children's home I invested the lion share of the deposit in. YANBU you're being sensible.