To think you can't just brush it under the carpet?

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

Disclaimer: I have AS so I really don't know which of us is unreasonable here.

I have had a 'difference of opinion' with someone. They asked me not to contact them any more as they were upset. I have apologised for hurting them, and asked what it is exactly I have done wrong (due to AS I find it difficult to work out, other person knows this) they responded reiterating that they want to be left alone, this time they were quite rude (shouting).

Fair enough, I haven't contacted them since. They did however invite DH over a few weeks later. He asked if they were willing to talk about what had happened yet, and the answer was 'can we just forget about it?'

Well, actually, no I can't. I still
don't know what I have done wrong, so I am at risk of repeating the mistake inadvertently. And there has been no acknowledgement that we were both partly responsible. No apology has been forthcoming.

So is the other person U for wanting to just forget about it without apologising/sorting things out? Or AIBU for not being able to forget things as easily as this person apparently can?

[Finola1step]

My dsis has AS and I have grown up knowing that many issues need to be discussed and broken down into their smallest components.

My dsis knows that meltdowns are not tolerated in front of my dc. I am fully aware that for her, slamming a door as she storms out over something quite minor, is a release of tension. But she knows that this is not tolerated in my home. And it does not happen. I do make sure that I remove trigger points as much as possible.

I suffered a lot of violence growing up at the hands of my sister. You mention in your last post that your meltdowns in private can be violent. Is your SIL actually worried about her brother during these private meltdowns?

[hedgehogsdontbite]

It's hard to say without knowing the content of the message you sent, but it's possible that you've done nothing wrong. She may have just been having a bad day and took it out on you. Now she wants to leave it because there is no reason and she's embarassed about that.

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

SIL does not know the full extent of my private meltdowns. But in any case, the only person I physically hurt is myself.

finola you say meltdowns are not tolerated in your house- but that you remove trigger points. I guess that's fair enough. That's kind of what I meant by needing support from family. I'm feeling a bit stuck, because just about everything I read about meltdowns is about children, and refers to people around helping them. But SIL is not willing to learn about how AS affects me.

Seeing as people keep asking for the full story- I texted to ask if I had upset her as I didn't feel she was inviting me round as much as she used to. She replied 'it goes both ways, you never seem to want to come down'. I explained that I am struggling with anxiety at the moment, she said I was upsetting her and could I stop texting. That's it. (The conversation took place via text as I find it very hard to talk on the phone)

[EponasWildDaughter]

How did she shout then OP?

[WhereYouLeftIt]

Let's turn the order of your last post around OP. Maybe that will make it easier to see where she may be coming from.

• You were struggling with anxiety, and so didn't want to go visiting. Presumably you turned (at least one) invitations down?
• She stopped inviting you as often.
• You asked if you had upset her as you weren't being invited as often as before.

Now, if I were her, and you'd turned down invitations, and I knew of your anxiety, I'd probably stop inviting you too. Not because I was upset with you, but because I was aware of your anxiety and didn't want to add to it by making you fret over whether you felt able to visit or not. I'd just have pulled back a bit and let you have space to resolve your anxiety, as I wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

If I'd been completely on the ball I might have dropped my brother, your DH, the nod that that was what I was doing. But it sounds as if your SIL is not completely on the ball right now, you've mentioned she's having a bit of a hard time. So maybe she doesn't think to do that, because her brainspace is all used up with her own worries.

You then text asking if you've upset her because you've noticed you're not being invited over so much. I would then think, 'Fuck me, I can't do right for doing wrong. I invite her, she gets all anxious about visiting, I don't invite her, she gets all anxious about not being invited. Aargghh!! I just don't want to deal with this.'

You say she's having a hard time right now, and by the sound of it she's being having a hard time of it for a while. Maybe, she's emotionally exhausted by her own life, and she just doesn't have anything left over for you? She feels she hasn't the resources to deal with your anxieties, she hasn't the resources to deal with understanding your AS, she hasn't the resources to deal with ANYTHING, and she just wants to not deal with anything that needs sensitivity/empathy right now because she's all out of both. She's overwhelmed with her own problems and doesn't want to deal with yours too.

I think I'm trying to say that maybe you need to give her space right now.

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

That came later- I left it a couple of days and DH asked her (on my behalf) what had happened, that's when she shouted.

[Theycallmemellowjello]

Ok, so she was not inviting you over so much and you asked if you had upset her. She gave a slightly mardy response that might indicate that she also thought you had been upset with her. Then she got upset/angry when you tried to take the conversation further.

So if the invites have got fewer either she's busy and maybe stressed, or she's not enjoying the visits as much. She's said she doesn't want to talk about it and that talking about it is upsetting her.

In these circumstances, yes I think it would be unreasonable to insist on talking about it further. She's made it very clear she doesn't want to and that it's upsetting her. She deserves 'support' as much as you do - and she's made very clear what she needs.

I'd advise moving on and trying to rebuild the relationship, if you are still interested in having a relationship with her. You communicated to her that you have anxiety issues and that's why you weren't coming over, she's communicated to you that she finds talking about your relationship with her and her own feelings stressful. So there has been some communication going on.

It is reasonable to expect a certain amount of support from friends - I think that includes trying not to do things that you know upset the other person. So I think it's fine to communicate get your DH to let her know if she does specific things you find triggering.

I'm not sure you can expect any more support than that though, especially if she is having a hard time. Definitely having a conversation that she does not want to have is not something she has to do to be supportive. Given that she is clearly saying that she does not want to have a discussion about this, I think it would be unsupportive of you to insist any further.

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

where it's not that I didn't want to go and visit, but when I am anxious I withdraw so I can see that I might come across as not wanting to be there, even though I do. This had been explained to her previously. I never turned down an invitation without a genuine reason- and this only happened once. I also invited her to our house, but it's harder for practical reasons for her to come to us, and I directly asked if I could come round to hers. A couple of times she agreed but cancelled before, a couple of times she immediately refused. The only time I have been round recently is when DH has been invited and the invitation extended to me.

But thank you for the alternative viewpoint. I think I am feeling pretty much the same way- I am struggling so much with anxiety and the AS diagnosis, I don't have anything left to support her. I could just do with sorting things out, if we decide amicably that we need to concentrate on ourselves for a bit then that's fine, but I hate feeling like we've 'fallen out'!

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents15]

Ok, you need to know where you went wrong, This is how I see it:

*You texted her and asked if you had upset her as she wasn't inviting you as much. (This was likely seen as you criticising her?)
*She said you had been turning down invitations, so that was why less invites (which seems reasonable enough?)
*You told her you were struggling with anxiety. (she perhaps thought: ok, but what does she want me to do, I invite her and she doesn't come, I don't invite her and she texts me complaining)
*And she asked you not to text anymore about it (not sure why, do you make a habit of these kinds of exchanges? Maybe she just didn't want to deal with you, has her own problems etc)

If she shouted at you, you must have called her after she asked you to leave it/her alone?
And now you refused to visit her (after you original complaint of her not inviting you) because she didn't want to explain exactly what the problem was?

I appreciate you have your issues but you have to see it from the other side, she's probably just thinking: this is all just too much, leave me alone!

[DinosaursRoar]

So from her point of view, you've had a go at her for not inviting you over, but when she does invite you, you say no. That you know she's having a hard time (unspecified, could things be worse than you realise?), but decided in the middle of that to have a pop at her for not making more effort with you, even though due to your own problems, you've not been making an effort with her?

I can see why that would be upsetting for her. Can it also possibly be that right now, she needs support from her family, and you are not only not giving that support, but actively telling her she's not giving enough?

Family support does need to go both ways, it can be hard for some people with AS to notice others need help unless those people actually spell it out, have you missed the scale of her own problems and not been their for her?

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

winter I think there have been some cross posts.
I did not turn down invitations.
I did not call her, DH did a couple of days later, he was trying to act as broker (which I don't think is unreasonable given that at least 2 people on this thread suggested it). I didn't fully explain that in the OP as I was trying to keep it short, simple, and non identifying.
I refused to visit as I was too anxious over what had happened. Put it this way- she shouted at me that she doesn't want to have to deal with my meltdowns. Shouting makes me anxious. I am also anxious about inadvertently upsetting her again as I did not know what I had done wrong. Meltdowns are primarily caused by anxiety. See why I decided it would be better not to go unless we could talk about it?

[WhereYouLeftIt]

So if you can regard yourself as not having anything left to support her, and that she is in the same boat;

and you know that you withdraw when anxious so maybe she does too in her own way in this tough time for her;

can you think about how you would feel if someone texted you asking if your withdrawal meant you were upset with them? Would it not make you anxious and withdraw all the further? To the point of asking them to stop contacting you because you're finding it upsetting? As she has done?

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

dinosaurs see my post of 19:29

I do know that she needs support right now. She won't tell me what she needs and when I've offered what support I can, or the support that I would like to receive, she turns it down. I'm sorry if it's not enough.

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents15]

You said She replied 'it goes both ways, you never seem to want to come down'. I explained that I am struggling with anxiety at the moment,
Which reads as you have either turned down invites or have made it clear you don't want to go.
If your DH called her, how did she shout at you?

I can see you are struggling with all this, but you have to see it from her point of view: you say she's witnessed minor meltdowns involving you shouting and storming out. Even if you have a diagnosis now and a good reason, its still very difficult for other people to deal with, especially if they don't know much about it.

She can't deal with all the angst for whatever reason. You're trying to force her to do so and pushing it again and again after she's asked you to stop. You're going to need to try and work out strategies to minimise the effects on your relationships with others.

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

Thank you where that makes perfect sense. I don't think I would react in that way (though I do find it hard to imagine what I'd do in different situations, sometimes I surprise myself by doing something I didn't think I'd do!) but I can see that it is a plausible reaction and thus a plausible explanation for her behaviour.

[CrohnicallyInflexible]

winter sorry if that's how it reads, I do want to go and have made it clear that I do, but there are times when something happens, I get anxious and need to calm down. I usually do this by 'switching off' from what is happening around me, and concentrating on something like a game on my phone, or a fiddle toy for a short time (maybe 10-15 minutes at a time). I am aware that from the outside this looks like rude behaviour- going to someone's house and then ignoring them! And it is one of the things that I have tried to explain in the past.

DH called her, I was in the room and I heard her (no background noise so I could hear a few words/sentences, and the fact that she was shouting).

I know I need to work out strategies, I have made huge progress in the last few months but it's slow going and I still have a way to go!

[DinosaursRoar]

Perhaps the most supportive thing you can do is to dial down the drama and stop being another problem for her to sort out. Sounds like you where being hard work, she overreacted, if she's stressed, she might have shouted when another time she'd have calmly made her point.

Perhaps accepting she doesn't have the energy for a big detailed postmortem of the whole thing and to just drop it would be best. The most supportive you can be would be to park this until you know she's in a better place and then ask her about it.

[EponasWildDaughter]

OK, so at some point while on the phone to her brother (your DH) she shouted that she wanted to be left alone and that she had had enough of your meltdowns.

Has she had to deal with your meltdowns often?

She obviously has an amount of anger pent up and let it out while on the phone to her DB. It wasn't meant for your ears directly though. Is there any comfort in that?

Personally if i were in a bad place emotionally and had a bit of a shout and rant, it's possible i would very much prefer to say 'lets forget about it' to a family member, rather than try and thrash it all out. Sometimes people have not got the mental strength to go about things the proper or rational way. Perhaps her invite to you both was an olive branch to you? A fragile one, and maybe a bit superficial, but an olive branch none the less.

[MidniteScribbler]

Text messaging is not an appropriate medium to have that sort of discussion on. Things get truncated and meaning cannot be conveyed. I hate long text conversations, just pick up the phone and call me and have a conversation. I know that you may find that more difficult, but if someone sent me a text message wanting to have what could be quite an emotional or difficult conversation, I would find that rude.

[NRomanoff]

Quite honestly, I have got upset at my sil like your sil has before.

My Sil is lovely, but quite self involved and I often can't do right for doing wrong. I get complained it if I just pop in (fair enough) then get moaned at when I arrange a visit because 'your don't need an appointment'. I have been told I visit too much, then not enough etc. She has 2 young kids so I usually assume that she just feels different on different days and just get over it. What she does forget though, is that I don't have an easy life either. And sometimes worrying about upsetting her just takes up too much brain space for me. She forgets that some people may also be having a shit time of it and expects them to act in a way she finds appropriate and doesn't allow anyone else to frustrated or act out of the frustration. When things aren't her way it ends up being a long drawn thing and tbh sometimes I have too much going on to be bothered with it.

In fact I did shout at dbro over her once, when they were getting married. I was pregnant and she kept asking me to take time off work on a particular day for a my dd to have her bridesmaid dress fitted. I couldn't get that day so offered loads of alternatives like my mum taking dd, going a different day, changing the time of the appointment. Dbro then called me at work and repeated her request for this particular day and time and that it had to be me that went. I lost my shit tbh. I get it was her wedding, but I was pregnant, working full time and doing my best.

What I am saying is that sometimes people just can't cope with everyone else's worries/ moaning/ problems all the time. Regardless of the reasons for those worries.

[LadyNym]

Midnite, that's not a reasonable thing to say to someone on the spectrum. The OP is not being 'rude' by texting as opposed to calling and it's not as simple as saying 'just pick up the phone'. It shows an ignorance of AS.

My sister has AS and I have many traits but not enough to be on the spectrum. I hate speaking to people on the phone unless it's DH, my best friend or immediate family members (and even then it can be uncomfortable for me. However, I can speak on the phone, I just don't like to and it makes me a little anxious. If it was going to cause problems I would be able and willing to go through that anxiety in order to avoid someone feeling like I was being rude.

That's not the case for someone on the spectrum, though. Can the OP physically speak to someone on the phone? Yes. Does that mean it's a reasonable demand? No. It would be like telling someone with a physical disability who can walk for short periods but finds it incredibly hard and draining that you think it's rude of them not to walk to come and meet you. Technically they are able to walk to see you but the toll it takes on them due to their disability means you insisting on them doing so is totally inappropriate.

OP, this is a hard one. It does sound like your SIL finds it hard to really empathise with and understand your AS but then you say you're recently diagnosed so this time will be a learning curve for everyone you know. My sister was diagnosed fairly late (though, she is much younger than me) about two years ago and I still occasionally find myself doing or saying something I later reaslise would have been uncomfortable for her. My dad also has AS but no diagnosis (it suddenly hit us all that it was blindingly obvious once my sister had hers) and I still find some of his behaviour totally baffling.

I know it makes you very anxious not knowing exactly what you have done wrong and not understanding what the problem is but sometimes this happens to NT people too. People are all different and complex and sometimes someone takes offence and you just don't know why. Now, it is probably easier for a NT person to accept this and move past it but it doesn't just affect people on the spectrum if that makes you feel any better!

As for where to go from here: I think you need to try to accept your SIL is struggling right now and that she would like to move forward without combing through the very recent past. I know that will be hard for you and cause you some anxiety but it is probably the easiest way.

When you retreat due to anxiety at your SIL's you use your phone or a fiddle toy. These are very common coping tools for people on the spectrum but - as you recognise yourself - can appear 'rude' in our society to NT people. Really, your SIL should be understanding of why you do this and not take offense but clearly she's struggling to do so for whatever reason. Is there a more socially acceptable way you could retreat when at SIL's? Perhaps offer to make teas/coffees for everyone and take a few minutes in the kitchen to calm down? Perhaps excuse yourself and go to the bathroom for a few minutes? Do they have a dog? You could offer to go and play with the dog in the garden? These are things that remove you from the situation so SIL doesn't have to see you retreating into yourself. I know you shouldn't have to do this but if you want to avoid upsetting SIL again it may be an idea for the time being?

I'm sorry - I didn't mean for this post to be as long as it has ended up!!

[CinnabarRed]

I agree with your SIL - she's having a hard time, you're having a hard time, harsh words were exchanged (albeit unwittingly on your part; maybe unwittingly for her too, especially as she didn't know you could hear her conversation with DH) - it's really best to draw a line under it and move on.

In her place, all a postmortem would achieve would be to make me dig my heels in further. Better to let the anger wash away.

[BL00CowWonders]

To go back to your OP, whether you or your SIL
Is being U, it seems to me that you both have different ways of coping. While your way is to thrash things out, hers is to ignore and move on.
Is either of you being unreasonable? She's offering to move on -can you think about this in the wider contact if your whole family? You'll be thrown together in social situations for a very long time to come, and there is a lot of advice from previous posters about coping when you two meet.

[Viviennemary]

She is playing a silly childish game. I'd have nothing to do with her. All this you have offended me but I can't say how. Say if you can't be bothered to tell me what I've done then let's just have no contact till you can.

[CatOfTheWoods]

OP I have recently been diagnosed with AS. A lot of what you say is familiar to me. I really want to get to the bottom of things and have it out so that everyone knows what's what. But a lot of people don't want that. The fact that they are happy to continue in what seems to me an "under the carpet" or "fake" manner (because in my book, they won't discuss the facts of the matter) leaves me feeling uncomfortable. But my DP says they're just trying to move on and put things behind them.

I do try to understand that. However just because you have AS doesn't mean everyone else is eminently reasonable and has superb social skills :) It sounds a bit as if SIL is uncomfortable your diagnosis or maybe feels you think it gives you a "right" to meltdown-style behaviour, and would rather avoid that.

If I were you I would back off for a while and try to forget about it, hard as that sounds. In basic terms, she's asking for a bit of space from you and I think you can respect that without it necessarily meaning you're in the wrong.