to be really upset about the Garden Bridge?

[butterfly133]

I know there's been increased publicity about the problems of the Garden Bridge and it's up for review soon. But what I find it interesting is that, although I totally agree with the finances - why pay for this in a time of austerity - some of the articles explaining the problems don't even explain that the view along the river will be ruined. St Paul's Cathedral has just been named Britain's favourite building so why are the GB people - unless they're stopped at review stage - allowed to block not just that view, but the entire skyline?

I've talked to other friends about this and they don't really care. I grew up feeling like the walk along the Thames and the London skyline was like therapy, and I wanted my children to be able to do the same. So did my parents. They can't be bothered opposing it because they think times change and no one cares any more about the skyline and views. Is that true?

Re the cash, DP and I travel to work nearly every day (well he does every day) and pay our fares to TFL. Why should we pay for TFL to invest in expensive ornaments? I don't think TFL is accountable to anyone is it, so we can't even talk to the local MP about it.And Temple will become a nightmare, one of the last quiet places left in London. I feel like government forgets people live here and think it's a massive theme park for tourists.

A Garden Bridge might be very nice, sure, but why there? It could revive other areas along the Thames rather than clogging up a place which is already busy. What do MNers think? Sorry, it's a very London-centric thing I guess....but then again, my folks don't live here any more and they're still upset about it.

[butterfly133]

now a YouGov poll shows majority in favour.
yougov.co.uk/news/2014/03/27/london-poll-strong-support-crossrail-2-and-thames-/

I've got to let this go, haven't I? (heavy sigh) I'd ask if Londoners knew the maths but they must do? And think it's fine to spend this on one space?

I am in two minds about whether or not to ask god daughter to make a special trip down to London to see the skyline and Queen's Walk and Thames Path etc. But is there a point showing it to her when it won't be there for her to enjoy in future? She will need to come soon as they are planning to start work immediately, presumably just waiting for judicial review to give them all clear, though some digging has started.

btw to the poster talking of the Walkie Talkie/Sky Garden, the picture in your article did really shock me. I've not seen the WT from that angle, hadn't realised how awful it was.

[lalalonglegs]

I suspect that most people think of lovely Joanna Lumley and a nice new park when the Thames Garden Bridge is mentioned. If they were made more aware of the money, restrictions on access and blocking of views, they might reconsider.

[butterfly133]

Maybe. I'm not sure how to get the message out without annoying the heck out of friends, colleagues etc. I have (quietly and in a non-pressurising way) raised it with a view and some have really come round to my view but others have just shrugged and think "that's the way the city is going, no point trying to oppose anything" whereas a couple of others don't care, or think it will be Absolutely Fabulous!! I have been genuinely surprised at that, but I suppose some Londoners are proud to live in a place full of tourist attractions and the yougov poll shows that.

I also have a feeling that after it goes up, something will go wrong and the press will make a big fuss about how much it cost etc. Right now protestors are being painted as moaners, anti-innovation, or as BJ kindly called us "the Taliban". If the petition could get higher before the judicial review, I think it would help but I've certainly run out of people to whom I can flog it! There's a lot of activity in the immediate area so that's covered but I think I have to calm down now as I don't think there's anything else I can do.

At least when the view's gone, I know I tried (she says, trying to hang on to something!!!)

[lalalonglegs]

I was listening to Any Questions? this afternoon - the London audience and the panel seemed pretty set against the Garden Bridge. It might not be as popular as you imagine, butterfly.

Looked up the Coal Line - it's bloody brilliant, how do we get people behind that instead? Can we get Joanna Lumley behind that instead? It's quite close to her home.

[butterfly133]

Thanks Lalalonglegs, I will listen to the podcast.

I am getting a sense that the tide is turning - no pun intended - and that the yougov poll was done before Londoners fully understood the cost and view implications.

but obviously the Garden Bridge people are doing a ton of publicity and some people do still want it though I think the reality will be different than they imagine. I have managed to convert a few contacts but you can't drive people mad with politics all the time!

Also, the London Assembly voted 11-3 against but Boris can veto them. I think the only hope is to get enough people against it that they decide it will be better for their reputations not to do it. Presumably all the companies stand to make a huge profit out of taxpayers so their PR is all guns blazing.

I thought the Coal Line was going ahead? But I can't see Lumley and Johnson seeing that as a substitute - Peckham won't be glam enough for them. I wish they'd stick up a statue of themselves rather than ruin the river. Grr.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

Going against the grain here, I think Thomas Heatherwick is a bloody genius; I loved the B of the Bang, love the Rolling Bridge and I think the Olympic Torch was pretty much an acknowledged triumph. I cannot believe people are slagging him off.

[butterfly133]

I don't think anyone is slagging off Heatherwick as such? If you mean my comment about the buses it was badly thought out - air con, windows that don't open and the air con can't work well due to the fact that the back of the bus is open and lets air in. Not a common sense choice I'm afraid.

Olympic Torch - yay. B of the Bang - eventually dismantled for safety reasons which doesn't thrill me re bridge. But really I don't care who is designing the bridge. One of my alternatives would be to put it somewhere else and actually charge for it - then it can be entirely privately funded and possibly help an area that may benefit - towards the East or the West. Plonking it 300m from the nearest bridge doesn't make sense.

It's an interesting point though, because I think it's part of why people like it, but we could get Heatherwick to do many lovely things round London instead of this?

[BuildYourOwnSnowman]

The bridge is totally unnecessary. From what I hear it will have a licence to close a certain number of days a year for private events. I would expect to see corporate sponsorship on it before you know it.

It is expensive and will do little to ease transportation issues in London.

I also understood that TfL were bullied into taking on the annual costs

[plummyjam]

I thought the B of the bang was an eyesore in an already blighted post industrial landscape tbh. It cost £1.7m to make and they only got £17k back for the scrap metal.

[butterfly133]

ooh for some reason I thought B of the Bang cost 6 figures, not 7!

I think the other thing with the Garden Bridge is that it can become a good example, on the wild off chance it gets stopped.....

what I mean is, there's always councils who are willing to pay out money for stuff like this even if there is evidence that no one actively wants it. I have heard supporters say "they are not going to put the money back in the welfare system" - okay, they are not.

But TFL could put their £30m bit into transport, and the taxpayer £30m could go on greening sites all over London, benefiting far more people than will benefit from the bridge. The Garden Bridge Trust themselves are anticipating queues to get on, so a commuter can't use it as a convenient river crossing point anyway - and even then it should cost a fraction of what it costs now.

So if the Bridge is stopped, it might serve as a warning to councils everywhere that they need to consult properly on things like this.

[hackmum]

I'd been on the fence until now but I didn't realise the bridge would block the view of the skyline. That's such a shame. It does seem like a bit of a folly. So many other things you could spend the money on.

[butterfly133]

Today is the last day to object to the sale of the land needed for the landing strip, so email them if you want to stop it - address in link - along with a realistic view of what it will look like when you walk along the South Bank

tcos.org.uk/index.php/8-latest-news/16-another-chance-to-stop-the-sale-of-public-land-for-private-development-write-to-lambeth-council-here

[Pestolavista]

Thank you for posting this. I work in Stamford Street and had no idea that the Coin Street open space was ear marked as part of the bridge. A disgrace in my opinion.

I will be very sad, if the view - one of the only free attractions - in an overpriced area - is sacrificed for this ghastly white elephant.

[lalalonglegs]

I've emailed - and so has my 11yo daughter .

[BuildYourOwnSnowman]

I've just emailed too.

I know it's not a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of things but they are cutting arts budgets left right and centre an this money annually could make a difference there too. And why is the money being spent in London.

There are so many different reasons I can think of that make this a bad idea

[butterfly133]

great, thanks!

I've had a few people tell me "it's impossible, that view is protected" - which confuses me even more in terms of how it got through planning. if it was just me being sentimental - that view is like therapy - it would be one thing - but a little digging showed it is meant to be a protected view so I am unclear how it got through.

I have a horrible feeling that it will go up and people who had no idea what was happening - through no fault of their own - will be distraught.

I also love walking along the South Bank green area that's going...and over the bridges. Goodness knows there are days I struggle in London, that view sets me right again. Earth has not anything to show more fair etc. (apologies to non-Londoners who think I'm off my head).

[chocolateyay]

I hate the new london skyline with thr pointy, jaggy skyscrapers, curvy rounded buildings and weird pointy towers. And rbe stupid one that looks like a bath sponge. From the 'fuck you' school of architecture. At least southbank and barbican have been listed.

[BuildYourOwnSnowman]

They keep butchering the skyline (eg walkie talkie)

It looks like they are going to permit a building in my borough that is twice the height of the closest buildings. It will cast into shadow the councils own green space. But hey, they will put in some tiny studios at affordable prices and a ground floor site for a charity so who cares if its going to ruin the aesthetics of the area.

[lalalonglegs]

I can't believe English Heritage aren't jumping up and down spokesperson here

[butterfly133]

English Heritage have approved it
www.standard.co.uk/news/london/fantastic-news-garden-bridge-plans-were-approved-says-architect-thomas-heaterwick-9899706.html

I like the London skyline - well, not the Walkie Talkie. But I think loss of light to residential buildings is unforgiveable. I feel like they have forgotten people actually live in Central London - I don't, but I'd be very upset if I did.

Which is the bath sponge?

I have said, in my emails to people, that I've never objected to any development in London before. I don't like this idea that anti-Garden Bridge people are all anti-change or NIMBYs...although I suppose that's better than Boris calling us the "Taliban". But it's an interesting point - I suspect that there a few of us objecting to the GB who've never objected to any other development, or indeed embraced change.

[butterfly133]

actually this article is better for the English Heritage position

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/architecture/garden-bridge-st-pauls-adds-to-175m-projects-troubled-waters-9926929.html

I do think the skyline's got enough modernity for now though. I like the Shard and the Cheesegrater but we don't need more. The development around Moorgate and Liverpool Street is going at quite a rate, plus the Shell development at Waterloo is being pushed through now.

[whois]

I was really pro until I found out you would have to pay to cross it. That doesn't sit right.

[IrenetheQuaint]

Boris was elected in 2008 partly on a platform of protecting London from rapacious developers and hideous new developments.

[BuildYourOwnSnowman]

My ds still hasn't forgiven boris for closing down our local fire station. Prime piece of real estate that is...