To think that the SNP will be stuck between a rock and a hard place

[Kampeki]

If Miliband refuses to do any sort of deal with them?

The Scottish MPs would surely then be an irrelevance at best, forced to vote with Labour no matter what. OR, they'd be forced to bring down a Labour government, potentially putting the Tories back in power, and thereby pissing off most if their electorate.

Perhaps it will just make people more inclined to vote "yes" in any future referendums, and so the SNP won't really be bothered, but it seems like a bit of a no-win situation for them in the short term.

[Sallyingforth]

Then he should have declared his interest much sooner and given his brother and supporters time to prepare for a proper contest. Instead of jumping up at the last minute with his union supporters.
Whateverhe thought of himself, the fact remains that Labour now has a weaker leader than it should have had. The coming election would have had a clearer result with no need to rely on SNP votee in parliament.

[Kampeki]

You're missing the point, sally. Regardless of what you think, Ed thought that he was the better candidate, and he won the contest. All the talk of back stabbing is irrelevant.

[Sallyingforth]

He thought David was too right wing.
Far better to have a natural leader who can succeed in government with socialist policies, than a failed weaker one on the left.

[Iggi999]

If, not I'd.

[Iggi999]

I'd the Tories get in, it would surely cement SNP support.

[Kampeki]

But it wasn't best for the country.

In your opinion, perhaps, but not his. He thought David was too right wing.

[Cloudhowe63]

The SNP aren't friends of Labour - they have more or less wiped out Labour in Scotland and thus removed a huge part of Labour's natural support.

The SNP are strong and Nicola Sturgeon has played a blinder. She comes across competent and human, but to a large extent Labour in Scotland have been wiped out by their own team. IMHO the SNP have gained support since the referendum because the other parties have pretty much reneged on the promises they made (as many of the 45% anticipated).

[Sallyingforth]

But it wasn't best for the country. His brother was better prepared for leadership and could have brought Labour into government without relying on SNP support.

[Kampeki]

Just look at his recent past Kampeki. He was so determined to get the job he even stabbed his own brother in the back.

What nonsense! He stood because he thought he was the best person for the job, and because his policies were different from those of his brother, who was very closely associated with new labour. You could argue that he did what he thought was best for the country, even though it had a negative effect on his personal relationships. The ultimate sacrifice, if you like.

[Sallyingforth]

That "voting alongside" will always be conditional on agreement to SNP requirements.
Just as Cameron would have to accept conditional support from minorities.

[ImperialBlether]

He doesn't need the support of SNP because on a vote they are likely to vote alongside Labour anyway.

He has to make it clear to the Labour voters in Scotland that they can't have it both ways; if they vote for SNP they risk Conservatives getting in.

[Sallyingforth]

Oh for god's sake, blether. Do you think Miliband would give up the opportunity to be prime minister rather than accept conditional support from the SNP?

[ImperialBlether]

Oh for god's sake, Sallyingforth. They stood against each other! He didn't stab him in the back at all.

[Sallyingforth]

Just look at his recent past Kampeki. He was so determined to get the job he even stabbed his own brother in the back.

[Kampeki]

Miliband will accept support from ANYONE if it gets him into Downing Street.

What makes you think that sallying? It wasn't Ed who described this election as "career defining" today.

[Sallyingforth]

Miliband will accept support from ANYONE if it gets him into Downing Street.

[Taz1212]

Good grief, I've just realised I keep calling him MILLIBAND! Oops!

[Taz1212]

I think the SNP will abstain where it suits them and that's how they will hold the threat over Labour- give us X and then we'll vote with you. I think Milliband is assuming they would never vote with the Tories (I.e. Directly against Labour policies) and isn't taking into consideration that they could just abstain unless they are getting something back. He's counting on their votes without a deal and I'm not convinced the SNP will play along.

[Kampeki]

scottish, I get what you're saying, but if Miliband is prepared to push her to the brink, I can't see that the Scottish electorate will be thrilled of she votes against stuff like the mansion tax.

[RedToothBrush]

If, as looks likely, neither Labour nor Tories have a majority, the Tories get first go at forming a gvt

&Is that actually right? Labour were incumbents in 2010 and could trivially easily have formed a coalition with the Lib Dems. They didn't, and there was no suggestion that they would get first go.^

The answer to the above is www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/22/a-hung-parliament-dont-panic-democracy-will-take-its-course. Its a point of constitutional law which is about as clear as mud. There is nothing in the Cabinet rule book to say who gets 'first go'. In fact it leaves it open to allowing two coalitions to form which potentially could be a nightmare.

However

there is a default position: in the event of a stalemate, the incumbent prime minister is entitled to remain in office and to have the first bash at testing whether or not he or she can command the confidence of parliament

But even then, the process of that confidence test is decidedly messy. As things stand, the first formal opportunity to test parliament’s confidence in whatever government does emerge is due to come in a series of votes held after the Queen’s speech, scheduled to tale place three weeks after the election, on 27 May. “The procedure,” notes Akash Paun of the Institute for Government, “is not designed with clarity in mind.”

In the aftermath of the Queen’s speech, Paun has written, MPs are required to vote “on the motion that they ‘beg leave to offer their humble thanks to Her Majesty’ for the speech she has delivered. MPs wishing to oppose the formation of the government must then file through the no lobby, effectively saying ‘no, thanks’ to the Queen.”

So the truth is, we could go through all of this and end up with a vote of no confidence anyway. And probably a re-election.

[ImperialBlether]

But if the population's 1/10th of the whole of the UK they can only ever have a minority vote! How else could it work? Proportional representation wouldn't make any difference.

Your argument seems very confused, too. You say it's flawed and she will hold the balance of power. Then you say this means several million voters will be ignored. Which is it to be?

[sugar21]

In all this furore it really does not seem right that if the SNP get every seat in. Scotland they will still have a minority vote in the UK. There are about 5 million people in Scotland and 57milllion (approx) in the rest of the country. The FPTP system is seriously flawed and I think we would be better off with proportional representation. So in our flawed system it means that Ms Sturgeon having won a projected 50 or so seats can hold the balance of power. This loosely means that several million voters will be ignored.

[ImperialBlether]

They haven't voted for the SNP in a General Election yet.

That's true. I think the most seats won by the SNP was 11/60 or something like that.

I'm still not convinced there's going to be this massive majority voting SNP. If they do, they will have to put up with a Conservative government. There's no way Labour can lose 40+ seats and stay in.

[namechange0dq8]

If, as looks likely, neither Labour nor Tories have a majority, the Tories get first go at forming a gvt

Is that actually right? Labour were incumbents in 2010 and could trivially easily have formed a coalition with the Lib Dems. They didn't, and there was no suggestion that they would get first go.

[ScottishProf]

Kampeki I don't think it's quite as simple as SNP voting through lots of Labour policies because they have the same ones. They have to be careful not to be seen to oppose things just to be awkward, sure. However, for example, I don't see why they should vote in Labour's version of the mansion tax or whatever, if Labour's still insisting on replacing Trident. They'd be quite within their rights to say "people who voted for us knew we wouldn't support replacing Trident, so we couldn't possibly support you raising more money so that you can spend it on Trident". As she keeps saying, Nicola Sturgeon understands from direct experience on the other side how this works. Ed Miliband doesn't, and it's rather showing.