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AIBU?

About middle of night hospital discharge?

92 replies

hawaiibaby · 18/02/2015 11:32

Giving myself over to MN jury as I'm unsure in the cold light of day but cannot be objective!

DS, 20m has a recurrent viral wheeze which lands him in hospital a lot in winter with breathing difficulties. He sometimes needs oxygen, sometimes just assessment and monitoring with his inhaler. Yesterday we had to go at 5 p.m. as he couldn't stretch between inhalers without struggling / working too hard with breathing. I knew we'd be there at least 4 hours but more likely 6 or 7 for the monitoring side, and we have previously been discharged at 12 and 1 am once they've been happier with him. Other times we've stayed overnight for monitoring or when there has been something else too (chest infection).

Yesterday, he was unable to wait anywhere near the required amount of time in between inhalers in A&E and they told us he'd stay overnight to be monitored once he moved up to the ward, we got up there at 10 pm. Upon admitting him they said he might be able to leave at 2 am IF he managed without the inhaler for next four hours, and if that was the case, did we want to take him home then or wait until the morning? DH had a big meeting at work first thing so waiting up there until 2 so we could go home wasn't ideal and mainly the cold aggravates DS' wheeze so didn't really want him out in it unnecessarily, so we said I'd stay with him overnight and DH would go and get some sleep, he left at 11ish, and overtired DS finally went to sleep.

At 1 am the doctor came and said his wheeze had almost gone, she was happy he could manage without inhaler until 2, and said we could go home after that. I explained the above convo with the nurse and that I didn't feel comfortable taking him out at that time across hospital grounds / car park, he was exhausted and finally sleeping and it didn't seem like the best thing for him. At which point she told me she was discharging him, there was no reason to stay, other parents had to manage and why were we different? If getting to the car by myself was such a big issue someone could take me and he could go back to sleep at home. Basically, I felt like I was being some sort of freeloader on the nhs for not wanting to leave until morning and her manner was bloody rude. I repeated the nurse had asked us and she said she had already told him he shouldn't have and that I could stay then as they weren't full, but if they needed the bed in the next few hours we would definitely have to leave.

So, at 2 am, when they woke DS up for his inhaler and throat exam, I - completely pissed off, knackered and confused - thought we probably should leave as if I settled him back down then we were kicked out for the bed it would be even worse. Then of course we had to wait half an hour while they fannied around doing I'm not sure what to discharge us. The doctor's (sarcastic?) offer of being walked to the car never materialised so did the deserted hospital grounds by myself. Got home at 330 am, unable to get DH up from his death sleep (chain on door), Ds crying in the car while I frantically banged on the door / rang him / prayed / eventually got in around the back with my kitchen key after climbing over the gate.

WIBU to complain? i'm really not a complainer (lazy) and have am very appreciative of the nhs but am not sure if that's clouding my view - I can be grateful for their help but still displeased with this, can't I? I don't really want to be in this position next time, and don't feel it's right for young kids with chest problems to be forced out in the winter at that time and wonder how many other people on their own with LOs this happens to. If we'd known this was going to happen, DH would have waited and pulled the car up to make it as least disruptive as poss for DS.

Sorry so long - would appreciate perspective!

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Avelosa · 02/09/2020 06:25

ZOMBIE!!

Pretty sure the OP is probably over it now given that this thread is from 2015!

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Elsewyre · 02/09/2020 06:00

inconvenience vs inability to access medical care

Totaly equal things

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mikethedad · 02/09/2020 05:51

I get why they need the beds but it sounds like they didn't even take any consideration into your circumstances before making that decision. I was on holiday in Kendal in the lake District with my DW and 2 twin sons (then 18m). One of them was taken poorly and being so far from home (we live in Stockport, Greater Manchester) we ended up at Westmorland Infirmary at 5pm. Stayed whilst they did obs and monitored and then at 7pm. decided he needed to be transferred to Lancaster Hospital so I took DS2 back to the hotel in Kendal and my wife went with DS1 in an ambulance to Lancaster Hospital. It was nearly 10pm before I got back to the hotel with DS2 who was ridiculously over tired (hrs usually tucked up fast asleep every night by no later than 8pm) and confused by the whole situation. Managed to settle him and he went to sleep eventually about 11pm. 3am got a phonecall from my DW going off her head because they wanted to discharge DS1 at that time. She explained that not only were we on Holiday so nowhere near home, I was about 30 miles from our hotel with DS2 who I'd only put to bed 4 hours earlier. I get they deemed DS1 to be fit enough for discharge but DW had only just got him settled after being poked and prodded till the early hours of the morning. They just didn't use any common sense in that decision. Luckily a very nice nurse who understood how ridiculous it was "took her time" doing the discharge process (and I mean really took her time thankfully) so DS1 and DW could at least have a few hours sleep and give me and DS2 back at the hotel before having to drag him out of bed and make the 60 round mile trip down to Lancaster from Kendal and the then back up to the hotel whilst tired not in fit to drive. At 7am they really needed the bed so they allowed my DW and DS1 to just hang around in the day room whilst I got myself and DS2 ready and drove down to pick them up. We were all still exhausted after a stressful night and about 4 hours sleep each but it could have been a lot worse if that Nurse hadn't understood the situation and dragged the discharge process out for us. Like I say, I get that they need bed's and for some situations it's appropriate to discharge in the middle of the night but they need to have a protocol in place to ensure that the personal circumstances of the patient and family have been considered first.

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grannytomine · 18/02/2015 19:57

Varya that is so sad, very much like what happened to my uncle. The lack of compassion is astounding but thank heavens there was one nurse with humanity.

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Varya · 18/02/2015 19:52

A dear friend with terminal cancer was discharged in the middle of a winters night in just a thin nightie, in a wheelchair, with no money and told to go home. She only got home cos a very kind nurse gave her the money for a taxi. She died very soon afterwards. Such callous behaviour astounds and saddens me.

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MillyMollyMardy · 18/02/2015 19:51

OP we haven't had a hospital admission since my ds started Montelukast a year ago, he has only had one course of Prednisolone in that time too. It's been amazing. I hope it helps your ds.

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GraysAnalogy · 18/02/2015 19:40

You can also add your experience to this www.patientopinion.org.uk and you often get a reply from someone at the hospital

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Ilovenannyplum · 18/02/2015 19:29

I don't think YABU, I wouldn't be very happy with that at all.
Hope DS is feeling better x

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hawaiibaby · 18/02/2015 19:09

HJgranger That's great to know - thanks. FX it will make a positive difference. Would be amazing if it got us through to Spring without another admission. With DS it is almost always a cold that sets it off, not ideal is it when they get so many when little!

RE DH and the death sleep - he apologised - forgot to switch his phone from vibrate which he always has it on. Again, he was stressed, tired. He's usually mr reliable and doesn't have form for locking me out! After last night, we know not to go on the word of the staff (unfortunately) and will be prepared to be leaving last minute at whatever time of the night.

Brighthouse Thank you.

I think most hospitals now allow you to complete an online questionnaire about the ward you were on so maybe you can give your feedback that way? As opposed to making an actual complaint. - That's a good idea, will look into it - thanks.

Right, quick dinner and BED! Over and out.

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Mummify · 18/02/2015 19:04

I hope your son is feeling better.
This situation is about how you were treated and the experience that you and your son had. As you are not happy you should definitely complain - the situation will be looked into in detail and if the hospital feel your complaint has a basis then they will put in place a plan to prevent others experiencing what you did.

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Totality22 · 18/02/2015 18:58

I am on the fence here.

I have been in hospital with DS (he was 13m at the time) for 3 nights with viral induced wheeze - that first night he couldn't go an hour without his medication.... and he was having additional oxygen... So I know how horrible it is.

However I do also understand that the NHS is stretched to breaking point and often beds are needed so decisions have to be made as to who 'makes way'

My MIL is a nurse and I have a friend who also works for NHS (clinical role) so I do hear the other side of the argument - bed blocking is a real issue albeit mainly with a certain demographic

If we had been in your situation we'd have not been able to leave at 2am as I had no car (we don't actually have a car!) so no means of getting home at that time, although I am in central London so I guess they could have called me a cab??

I think most hospitals now allow you to complete an online questionnaire about the ward you were on so maybe you can give your feedback that way? As opposed to making an actual complaint.

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brighthouse · 18/02/2015 18:43

I know it's the nhs we are talking about and everyone knows they are over stretched but come on discharging a child with breathing difficulties in the middle of the night it utterly disgraceful. My dd had breathing difficulties when she was young the cold weather definitely made it worse

As for the people saying the op was being very unreasonable wonder if they have ever been in the same situation, doubt it

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Sirzy · 18/02/2015 18:28

Glad he is getting long term treatment. Montelukast works wonders for a lot of children

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HJGranger · 18/02/2015 18:13

My boys take the tablet version of it OP and it really has made such a difference. Previously, even just a cold would go straight to their chests, my 3 year old in particular would be really quite poorly when other kids would shrug it off. He recovers much quicker now though, and it's not been as bad when he has been chesty. He's not needed a nebuliser since starting on them 3 months or so ago. I hope your little boy gets better soon.

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littlemonkeyface · 18/02/2015 18:01

God that sounds awful. Complain.

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WaxyBean · 18/02/2015 17:52

They tried to discharge me at midnight just over 24 hours after I had DS2. He had needed monitoring for 24 hours, and the whole time he was being monitored I was asking if we could go home as soon as he had received the all clear and was told that no we would need to stay the night. So when at midnight they told me we were being discharged and to sort out transport, I flipped. I'd stood DH down and he was asleep at home with DS1 so couldn't easily come out, nor did I have a car seat anywhere else to get a taxi or someone else to pick us up. So I stayed till morning having spent the night, much to the nurses' disgust - and walked out at 7.30am. The 4 bed bay was empty and I didn't need any care overnight so I don't think my staying was a problem. Clearly this doesn't happen often as I appeared on the district midwife's visiting rota a day early as had been discharged before the day's list was drawn up....

It frustrated me no end - and made me wonder whether I was abusing NHS hospitality and should have made more effort to get home at midnight, or whether I was being entirely reasonable....

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expatinscotland · 18/02/2015 17:47

Your H needs to leave the chain off on nights when you have to take him and set his phone to ring as alarm. Next time he takes your DS in so you can sleep.

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GraysAnalogy · 18/02/2015 17:39

Ah crap, sorry missed your update.

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GraysAnalogy · 18/02/2015 17:38

It's extremely bad form and something the NHS have tried to reduce, but to be honest you didn't need that bed anymore. Someone else may have.

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RabidFairy · 18/02/2015 17:38

I won't weigh into the debate as you've said its resolved now, OP, but I wanted to say that it sounded like a very long and difficult night. Hope your DS is feeling better and that you all get a good nights sleep Flowers

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hawaiibaby · 18/02/2015 17:31

Sirzy - sorry forgot to respond last post. He's under paediatrics and started on montelukast granules a month ago. No difference as yet in frequency but doc said he may recover quicker this time because of them. Do you have experience?

PS The reason I went home (other than stroppiness Grin ) was the fear of finally resettling ds (takes a long time in noisy hosp) and then have to go anyway an hour later because they needed the bed. That is after all what the doctor helpfully threatened told me.

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YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 18/02/2015 17:27

I hope you don't get another eight million posts saying YABU after your gracious update!

It's always stressy having a DC in hospital, no matter how long or short a time. Is he feeling ok today?

Incidentally, what did you say to your DH about being uncontactable? I would have gone berserk.

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Sirzy · 18/02/2015 17:09

Hawaii - hope your DS is better now. Does he have a preventer inhaler?

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MissDuke · 18/02/2015 17:08

I agree that this doctor was very unpleasant to you!

However I agree with other posters that you should have stayed. You had stood up to the doctor and negotiated a stay so I don't understand why you then went. You may have just woke, but you say it took half an hour for them to prepare the discharge, so you had plenty of time to change your mind.

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hawaiibaby · 18/02/2015 17:06

Right - unreasonable it is. Fair enough and thank you.

Fully concede the doctor reluctantly and conditionally agreed we could stay eventually, as before, it was more that we were asked if we wanted to stay, made plans based on that, then it changed. But yes just one of those things and not worthy of a complaint because of a breakdown in communication. And yes I was pissed off and stroppy (did say that earlier) but that sometimes happens when stressed, upset, anxious and without sleep. As before, we have been discharged in the early hours so it wasn't that per se, though it's interesting that a lot of PP in similar situations aren't.

I'm not going to answer every post because quite frankly I'm too tired and though am fine to be told unreasonable, I do object to getting a bit of a pasting. I asked if I wbu to compain. Answer = yes, fair enough. But otherwise, not sure what I've done wrong. I'm not a difficult person, and as pp have said I absolutely would have moved and quickly if the doctor had asked / explained this was what was needed. We are both very 'yes of course, thanks for your help, grateful for support' type people. I didn't realise that meant I couldn't feel upset at how the night unnecessarily panned out. It's great for those that are cool as cucumber and completely un-fazed by this kind of thing (if indeed you've been in a similar situation) but it's not like that for everyone.

Thanks to everyone who managed to give their verdict - whichever it was - without being completely rude Flowers

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