To not want to be told by sil not to use this name

[bagonails]

I name-changed for this as sil sometimes uses the site and I don't want her to trace me on other threads.

Dh and I are expecting our first child and we are having a boy. We have not decided on a first name yet, but have chosen a middle name. This is a name that I have wanted for a boy's middle name since my maternal grandmother died when I was a teen. The name was her maiden name, but is also used as a first name - it is a traditional first name (think Thomas, but not that) and, much as it is very important to me to use it as a middle name, I have never considered it as a first name. When I told all this to dh, he was very happy to use it and told me that he had a cousin named this who died 20 years ago at the age of 10. Dh was pleased that we could commemorate both our relatives with this name.

However, today we mentioned all this to sil and she was horrified that we would even consider it. She said it was hugely disrespectful to her and dh's aunt and would be likely to upset her greatly. Now I would never want to cause this woman any heartache, but feel the following points are relevant. Firstly, the child died so long ago. Please - I am sure the pain would never end for a parent - I am NOT saying she should have got over it by now at all. But surely it is not quite as raw? We are talking about a middle name that she would probably never actually hear us use. We are not going to have the child christened, so she may only need to hear it once, when told, if that is even essential.

We see her once or twice a year, so I am really reluctant to give up this, for me very significant name, for this reason. I really hope I don't sound heartless, because I feel so deeply for her - the child was her only one and dh tells me there have been times the family have been really worried for her, though she is 'fine' now, as it were.

Sil's final comments were that we need to ask the aunt's permission to use the name, but, tbh, I really don't want to because if she says no, we can't use it and it is really important to me. I have an elderly aunt who lived with my grandmother her whole life until gm died, and I know it would mean a lot to her too. I had been looking forward to telling her.

AIBU?

[OVienna]

I see where the people who are saying tell her are coming from. However - and i admit to slightly obsessing about this thread - i have been on the receiving end of the 'we thought you'd like to know' sort of call. admittedly on a much less emotionally fraught topic. But thinking about how I felt when I received the call at the time when my view/feelings wouldn't have made the person act any differently, it didn't feel caring or thoughtful. it felt like my role in the proceedings was to make the person doing the thing feel okay about their decision, if that makes any sense. Sort of - we feel bad-ish, but would like to hear you're okay with it, but...it's a formality. The OP used that language below and i think she's right the aunt might feel this way.

if the OP and her partner will give the baby this middle name regardless - and in fact I think that under these particular circumstances this isn't at all unreasonable - then I think a discreet call telling her first AFTER the birth when the deed is done but before others know about it, is the way forward.

if they might change their mind and the aunt's views do matter in a practical way, then call her I guess. But it could also end up with the OP feeling very resentful and the aunt feeling like responsibility for the decision somehow - and very unreasonably - devolved to her.

not sure if this makes any sense...

[HappyAgainOneDay]

I don't know how common - as in popular - your chosen name is but there must be other people with that name. Doesn't the SIL ever meet them or hear about them or read about them?

Imposing her wishes on you is rather controlling. Ignore what she says and go about your own business as you would like. I suppose it might be a good idea not to mention it to her again. Go ahead and call your baby whatever you like but not Wayne or Leroy, please.

[StoryOfMyLife]

I'm also parent to a child who died and agree with the few posters who have said please just run it past the Aunt.

My daughters name always stops me in my tracks and brings memories. I am sure I would be ok if I had some warning but using the name without telling the Aunt looks like her child has been forgotten in this rather than remembered.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

They have a lack of empathy I think.

[StUmbrageinSkelt]

I'd be devastated if someone close to me used the name of our dead child without having the basic courtesy and empathy to talk to us first. It's not about us owning the name but it is about acknowledging the lost child. Many of us feel like our children become invisible. Using the name without talking to the aunt first is just awful.

Why are some of you so unkind?

[ohmyactualgiddyaunt]

In your shoes I would talk to the aunt.

My dd1 died shortly after birth and a relative used her first name as her child's middle name several years later. Noone warned me, in fact the relative told me she planned to use a totally different name and it was like massive kick in the guts. I'm still upset by the fact that they just used my dead baby's name without a second thought as to how it would feel for us. If she had talked to me beforehand it would have been totally different as it would have given me time to get used to it.

[dottytablecloth]

I wouldn't announce to anyone the name of my child until they are here safely.

You are making an issue where there isn't one.

SIL needs to butt out.

Do NOT discuss names with anyone other than OH in RL until you are announcing baby's safe arrival.

[nooka]

Please talk (or perhaps dh's mum might be better) to the aunt in person. Much better than an email I think.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

That wording is good, as it steers around another issue that you need to be careful about.

If you ignore the link to her son and make a big deal out of using the name in memory of the other boy, then it's potentially very hurtful -could be seen as ignoring or overlooking that link.

I can imagine how awful it would he to hear someone wanted to use my sisters name to honour someone who wasnt my sister. That would wound deeply.

So for those reasons, you do need to make it clear that you are being respectful to both people.

[50ShadesofGreyMatter]

'We thought we'd like to let you know in advance that the baby's middle name will be X, as it's an important family name for bagonails side. However with it being X's name too we wanted to let you know. We'd never presume to say that the naming was after X too, unless of course you're happy with that. We thought you'd like to know.'<

^^ Perfect wording. Polite, but not asking permission as no permission is needed. The name is special to you for one reason and to someone else for another reason, you have every right to use it.

[nooka]

My aunt died in her 30s and forty years on my father was still very upset by her death and conversations about her were very hard and quite emotional. My middle sister wanted to call her second dd that name but decided that it would be too difficult for my father, and chose a slightly different name that didn't have the associated memories. I think it would have been incredibly unkind to have used the name regardless, although it was for a first name which is a little different.

I also had a cousin who died when he was four after being very ill for most of his life. He is still much mourned by his family even though many years (30+) have passed. If I had wanted to use his name for my son I would have visited my aunt and talked to her about the possibility of using his name and been totally guided by her as to whether she would have found it a healing thing or a difficult thing. Even if I had 100% adored the name I would not have used it if I didn't think she was totally OK. Because I love her and losing a child is such an incredibly raw and difficult thing that her feelings would be in this instance more important than mine and I'm not sure how she would feel.

On the other hand my ex-SIL, who lost her dd in her early 20s would I am sure be very happy to have her dd remembered in the family. I'd still check to make sure though.

[Bulbasaur]

It depends on several things.

Sometimes the death of a child can cause the surviving parents to have PTSD depending on how they died. Naming your child after her dead son could trigger her and make everything raw all over again. Not to mention once your son reaches 10 years old it could make it incredibly hard to see a child with the same name at the same age as her son when he died.

Conversely, it's been 20 years and your aunt might be honored that her son is being remembered like this.

That's why it's important to talk to her.

Honestly, I'd really consider picking a different name if the aunt isn't alright with it. You don't want your child's name and day to be dampened with ill feelings.

I didn't give DD any name that's in the family, even though it's tradition in my family to do so. I wanted her to have her own unique identity to create.

[HelloItsStillMeFell]

just say, not 'say just' !

[HelloItsStillMeFell]

Some people would be flattered and comforted by it, others would be insulted and horrified. There's no guessing which.

I think the best thing to do is to focus on the granny connection and play down the cousin connection. Write to the auntie (get your DH to do it) or get your MIL to ask her directly, and explain that you have always wished to use the name because of the connection to your grandmother, and your DH wants to support you in that wish.

Say just you wanted to LET HER KNOW out of respect (note, you are NOT asking her permission; she doesn't own the name and she will never have to even hear it spoken out loud as it's only a middle name.)

That way you aren't springing anything on her that's likely to cause upset and she will have time to come to terms with it.

Don't immediately mention that is will also honour her son. She may have strong feelings against that, whereas she can't argue with you wanting to honour your granny. If she says 'oh lovely, I don't mind at all' then you can say 'of course it's nice to also remember Henry/James/Graham as well' but don't push the idea that it is all about him unless you get very definite vibes from her that she is happy with it.

[Eminybob]

My DS's middle name is the name of my parents first baby who died when just a few days old. It is also my dads middle name and the name he goes by.
My parents were touched that I honoured not only my dad but also my dead brother when naming DS.
I think it is the opposite of disrespectful and your SIL is being weird.

[DrLego]

My DD died and someone at the hospital involved in her care went on to have a baby and call her the same name. I was absolutely touched.

[ohdearitshappeningtome]

I think you need to speak to the aunt sooner than later.
You don't want sil putting her tuppence in first and making mountain out of molehill and telling the aunt a different story

[mynewpassion]

While I think the SIL is a bit overzealous in her reaction, she does make a good point. Your DH wasn't even thinking about how the aunt would feel until she pointed it out.

Nothing might come out of it but I think its respectful to at least inform the aunt of the chosen middle name privately instead of hearing it at a family gathering or something. No need for permission but just a common courtesy.

[Jill2015]

A friend of mine christened her baby boy with the same name as his uncle who died in an accident shortly before the baby was born. It was seen as a huge mark of respect by her parents in law. I am sure that she and her husband would not have used the name if it would have upset the parents any further, following the tragedy of losing their son.
OP, I would be inclined to mention it, by all means, to the aunt, explaining that it is a family name, and leave it at that.

[sykadelic]

WandaFuca I don't think the OP meant to imply the SIL thought it would be disrespectful to her, but to "SIL and DH's Aunt" or "dh and sil's aunt" so that we were aware it was her DH's sister, not her sibling's wife, and it was their aunt who lost the child..

OP I agree with others advice that I would let Aunt know that this is the middle name you have chosen because it has a strong family connection for you and also that DH thinks it's a good thing because of her son, and they just wanted her to be aware of it.

My problem would be though, like you said, that she says "no" or doesn't approve. I don't think you can win though. If you don't let her know ahead of time she could think that her son was "forgotten" because no-one thought to tell her or give her advance warning, or if she doesn't like the idea and she tells you no, you either ignore her and do it anyway, or you respect her wishes.

I understand your strong feelings about the name but I don't think you can truly decide to give your child the middle name if his Aunt (and family) are so vehemently opposed to it.

[Ujjayi]

Speak with your aunt & make the decision from there.

My neice used the name for her first born that I had given to the baby boy I lost. She didn't know this - I have never told her - & I'm not sure I ever will. It is lovely to hear the name used tbh. ( Altho I'm not keen on the short-form of the name that they use )