to go for the grammar?

[parakeet]

I am really torn. Reading, spelling, she's brighter than average I reckon (all parents think that, I know). Maths, she's currently in the middle set (out of three). She's in Y4, and we haven't done any tutoring yet but I'm thinking we should probably start around now if we're going to.

Our nearest comp is quite decent, so she would probably be fine if she goes there. But I feel she would probably fit in better at a grammar - she's fairly studious, not very street-wise, in fact a bit of a goodie-goodie, god bless her. I could imagine her being happier there.

On the other hand the last thing I want is for her to feel anxious and stressed for the entire remaining years of her school-life, because she is always behind at maths.

[pointythings]

I'd like to pick up on your point about your DD fitting in better at grammar because of her character - studious, not streetwise, bit of a goodie-goodie. That's my DD1 to a T. We are not in a grammar school area so it's comprehensives all round. DD is in top sets for everything, has a lovely group of friends who are just like her so no bullying problems - which the school comes down hard on in any case. I wouldn't rule out the comp just based on your DD's personality, there will be plenty of kids there who are just like her.

Of course there's nothing wrong with going for tutoring and giving the exam a shot, but don't automatically think that the comp will be worse.

[parakeet]

No, I wasn't complaining, I wanted people to be bluntly honest! I only meant off-putting in the sense that it is putting me off going down the grammar route.

[kilmuir]

Middle set for maths is ok. My dd is at selective grammar. We did minimal tutoring.
She is now top set for english and ' bottom' set for maths. Still doing well.
Someone has to go in bottom sets grammar school or academy!

[parakeet]

Ah thank you Pointy that is good to hear.

[drbonnieblossman]

Children need to be at least a level 5a, preferably a level 6 by the time of sitting the exam, to stand a chance of passing. Middle set won't be nearly high enough

[LePetitMarseillais]

You can't be amazing at everything and who cares if maths isn't her thing.I know several who really struggled with maths that got in in our area.They only needed 50%, the weighting was on VR and there were Eng marks to bump up scores to.

Schools mark papers differently.In our area 4 schools set the same paper and 2 had different methods of scoring.

[LePetitMarseillais]

Not sure schools give levels for VR and non VR so I'd take the 5a/6 thing with a pinch of salt.

[mygrandchildrenrock]

I know it will seem years away but have a look what the options are for sixth form. My son took his GCSEs this summer at a secondary modern school in a selective area. They don't have an academic sixth form so he has had to transfer to the grammar school for A levels. He hates it! He hates feeling like the new boy, (although 19 other children joined the sixth form) he thinks everyone is arrogant etc. If I had known how hard the transition to sixth form would have been I might have made a different choice all those years ago.
The Grammar school is fine, his sister is happy in Y9 (went there in Y7) it's just too different from his old school.

[skylark2]

So she's average at maths and maybe above average at reading and spelling, but you're not sure?

I think you need to consider that she will probably be at the bottom of a grammar school, ability-wise, if she gets in at all. Do you think that would suit her?

(I decided it would not suit my kids. I therefore didn't get them tutored for entrance exams - I made sure they were familiar with the style of the papers and that was it. Both got in and were nowhere near the bottom of the ability spectrum - but some of their peers who were massively hothoused to pass the exams have really, really struggled.)

[OpalQuartz]

I don't think nonsuch test nvr or vr any more. Just maths and english.

[OpalQuartz]

Sorry for the lack of caps!

[paddyclampo]

First of all, being in middle set for maths really depends on the cohort that she's in. It could be a really able class, and in a less able school, maybe she'd be in top set.

Also, I think entry requirements vary wildly from school to school. My DS has recently passed the 11+ (we're in the North West). He wasn't tutored (this was actively discouraged by the school he applied to) but he did practise past papers that we were able to buy.

Ultimately, we left the decision up to him. Took him to the open day and he decided he wanted to give it a go.

Where in the country are you?

[parakeet]

I am in South West London, thinking about Nonsuch School for Girls. After this advice, I am planning to get her a maths tutor anyway, and then see where we are in a few months, but will probably only advise her to sit the entrance exams if she seems to have improved in maths. And will see what the tutor thinks too, I guess.

Thanks again, all. Off to bed for now.

[ToffeeCaramel]

Sounds like a good plan

[drbonnieblossman]

lepetit the levels are nothing to do with vr/non-vr. children are assessed on these levels from ks1. The boys grammars in the area don't do vr/non-vr either but their heads will all tell you the same thing - if they're not at that level, they stand very little chance.

[Spickle]

My DS went to a grammar, my DD to the local comprehensive. My DS is very bright, top sets for everything and competitive which made me think a grammar school was the right place for him. Unfortunately, he became very average in the grammar school and by year 9, he had practically given up trying. Be prepared that your DD may be told to do better rather than receive praise and encouragement. DS passed his GCSEs with good (but not great) grades. In retrospect, he would have been far better in the comprehensive like his sister, where the teachers praised her effort and commitment unlike the constant "could do better" statements he received from the grammar school. Incidentally, my daughter got as many GCSE's and same grades as my son and her whole experience of life at school is far more positive.

I think what I am trying to say is go and see the school and think very hard about whether the ethos and atmosphere is right for your DD. It doesn't necessarily mean she will get a better education or exam results. But her happiness is paramount.

[GraduateMum]

Don't have too much tuition just to get a place because if your child needs a lot of tuition then they will either still fail and then feel let down or they have let you down. If they get in they will be bottom of the pile which brings many problems,. A tutor for exam technique is OK but not for content. Many grammar schools are now switching to a test that "weeds" out those who are not naturally bright. About time too as I have seem pupils who have been tutored become disruptive, hold others back, have mental health issues, drop out, have to repeat a year and many more horrors. You are better saving your money for a good private school where the classes are smaller .

[Daydreamersea]

And don't forget if she is able and goes to the local comp then she will be in all the top sets anyway with equally able children and under less pressure.

IMHO I think confidence is far more important than struggling under pressure in a grammar school trying to keep up and feeling inadequate and losing enthusiasm with learning.

[parakeet]

Do you know I am rapidly going off grammars! The other thing I should add is that she can be prone to nerves, self-doubt....so maybe the comp is best after all.

[gingee]

My dd passed for grammar 6 yr ago at a 4a in Maths and a 5a/6 and gifted & talented list in English. She didn't finish all the questions on two of the papers either. Really if you want to do the 11 plus, do it, but the main thing is it doesn't matter if you pass or not you're just seeing of you can maybe go to that school, if you go to a different school you are just as fabulous and are going to be just as successful. Maybe do 1.5 hr tutoring a week?? Doesn't seem too much but will get a lot done. At my dds school there was definitely not anyone in her yr7 class who was at GCSE maths level, maybe one or two, certainly not dd. But there were some that struggled with one subject or another. Honestly they aren't the reserve of geniuses - I mean how many 'extremely gifted' kids can there be? I'd say my dd was very above average in English but average at Maths, but there can't be enough kids at 'highly gifted' level in every subject to fill 3 classes in every year at every Grammar in the country. I know many tutor the living day lights out of there kids (which is a shame because kids with a) lower income or b) sane parents miss out), but really if you put a bit of work in you may as well give it a go. Just don't pile the pressure on. I acted like I wasn't arsed with dd, I of course was and she had a place at 2 other fee paying Girls schools which were selective but not overly so, we didn't make much of a deal about the entrance exams for those either, which she took after the 11 plus, and she was kind of innocent about the whole thing which I think is good. Some vile creatures at her school were going on a about those with 'no chance' of getting into grammar and mocking the decent local comp in the playground. Horrid, but they got it from their parents.

[gingee]

• when I say 1.5 hrs I mean an hour in a group or 1 to 1 and then half an hour at home going over stuff.

[Agapanthusbluewhite]

Yes but gingee you are a prime example of why they have banished so many grammar schools. You can afford private and your DD went to a primary school where they mock the local comp and you pretend it all doesn't bother you when it does. You were not going to send your DD to the local comp so you were mocking it, just not as openly. You didn't think it was good enough.

[Agapanthusbluewhite]

Parakeet don't be put off. These are all opinions and experiences being shared with you. Make of them what you will. Tutor your daughter as planned, let her sit the exam and let fate take its course.

[Agapanthusbluewhite]

And there really are not that many gifted and talented children so don't let that put you off either.

[gingee]

Oh gosh my other dd will be going to the local school, as she's quite fantastic in many many ways but not massively academic, she doesn't herself want to try for the grammar she would like to go where her best friend is going, and she would like to not have to get a bus to school as it is a bit of a worry point for her. Her choice. I went there as did DH !! My dd who is at grammar had a problem with bullying and the two main culprits were in the year above, already at the local comp. I know it was chickening out a bit to send her private and it wouldn't have been ideal financially. The comp probably gets just as good if not better results than the private schools and gives a better experience on the whole. But for dd we wanted to do what was best for her