To feel sorry for American's as their healthcare system appears abysmal

[Wowthishurtsalot]

I'm a member of a support group for a health condition I have which is fairly rare, this support group attracts a global network of posters who draw on it for support and advice.

The American posters almost all have the same complaints:
'My insurance won't cover a referral to the right specialists'

'My insurance only covers one prescription a month so I have to pick and choose which attack I use it on' (the condition can mean you'll have several attacks or flares a month)

'I've had to quit work, I have no insurance and therefore no meds'

'My insurance doesn't cover/considers these meds non essential'

It's appalling. Its a condition that renders its sufferers in hospital several times a year but with the right medication can be managed. It can, in its extreme form, kill or trigger a life changing side effect.

How does that country function?! I Really count my blessings and am so grateful for the NHS when I speak to american sufferers or carers. AIBU?

[BlackSwan]

The US system may be awful if you don't have insurance. But the care is exceptional if you do. Better than here. And I have experienced both.

[4321PipandEstella]

SconeRhymesWithGone yes, I could, but the price increase is the same - ten times what he currently pays.

[CheerfulYank]

Pip and he can't get it under the ACA? :(

[Suzannewithaplan]

?Do you mean that US health care when you have insurance is better than uk health care when you have insurance ?Blackswan?

[joanofarchitrave]

My understanding always was that Americans with good insurance can get the best care in the world, Americans with no resources at all can get the best care in the world, but the working poor are stuffed.

I'd agree that looking only at the NHS versus US care is a bit nonsensical - lots of other systems to consider. No-one in their right mind would actually introduce US style care here. Would they?

[Seriouslyffs]

That's nice for you catwitch if you looked out of your bubble you might object to living in a country which needs charities like this
It's rather nice living in a country which values a child's right to see.

[stopgap]

My care in the US for Hashimoto's has been superb. It's nigh on impossible to get my medication in the UK, and definitely not on the NHS. My experience with childbirth in the US was excellent, too, but I opted for an experienced midwife, whereas I knew a fair few people with horrendous, unnecessary c-section stories under the care of OBGYNs.

I would not mind a jot if our taxes were raised to cover a better system of universal healthcare, but I hate to say that most Americans are definitely for themselves first and foremost.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

I hate to say that most Americans are definitely for themselves first and foremost.

How do you know this? Polls consistently show that a majority of Americans support universal health care coverage; there is even a high degree of support for expanding Medicare, the single-payer government program for people 65 and over.

The problem is in the extremely complex ways in which health care in the States has been allowed to develop, for a variety of reasons, and with many state variations. It is a huge business, with powerful lobbies, that are able to influence politicians and public opinion, which often taps into the historic American distrust of government, a distrust that is very ingrained and goes back as far as the colonial experience. It is a distrust so strong that many people who would clearly benefit from a more socialized model strongly oppose movements in that direction.

[Downamongtherednecks]

yes, I agree with Scone even my medically bankrupt neighbour believes that Obamacare is a bad idea! (I don't argue anymore). I find it hard to reconcile the fact that many Americans I meet would literally give you the coat of their backs, but don't approve of anything "socialised".

[Suzannewithaplan]

it does seem strange that Americans have that view about Obamacare, then again I expect Americans could find things which to them, are equally contradictory in British culture

[Suzannewithaplan]

lots of us have beliefs which are rooted in emotional or gut feelings that we cling to never realizing that they don't stand up to rational scrutiny

[Darkandstormynight]

I'm in the states and have good health care insurance. I can be seen within four hours normally and many times within the hour! Specialists might be a week. I recently had a over 6K MRI and most of it was paid for, the deductible was paid by Dh's plan.

My inlaws are not in the states (Not UK) but have socialised medicine. MIL needed a heart operation and waited over five months. No exaggeration, she was near death when she finally got the operation. That would never happen here IF you have good insurance.

So that's the caveat. YABU if you feel sorry for all of us as a whole. I wouldn't trade places for anything. I personally don't know anyone with substandard insurance, and I absolutely love I can get good care so quickly. but YANBU to feel bad for the people with bad insurance. It's the lower middle class with crappy plans who suffer before they fall through the cracks.

The true poor families have many resources for good free health care, as do children of lower middle class that don't have good insurance. These children can get free health care and dental care even if their parents don't qualify which is a huge blessing for many families.

[TheWholeOfTheSpook]

US healthcare, with good insurance, pisses on every healthcare option in the UK, NHS or private. It's proactive in that you see your Dr annually from birth, regardless of whether you're sick or not.

Ultimately, it's really hard to compare the two systems as they are two totally different cultures and have vastly different populations.

[lljkk]

Proactive = high risk of unnecessary procedures & treatment, though. Speaking from family experience of good health care plans.

I take back my excellent care comment.... I'll change it to "care is there but you have to fight for it." I've just been asking one of my disabled relatives about her medical care (in California). She's saying she had to argue for every operation and some came too late. She argued fiercely for an op that was delayed & delayed until she lost sight in one eye (irreversible) before they would do the op. She's got a genetic life-limiting condition that is slowly making her very disabled.

[CheerfulYank]

A lot of people I know who are opposed to the ACA aren't opposed to health care reform, they just don't like this particular law.

And Scone is right...most of us don't trust the government. Not as in, the leaders we have now, just any government in general. I'm not talking about the people holing up in cabins in the woods with an arsenal, I mean just basic everyday people.

[wonkylegs]

Darkandstormy - in an emergency in the UK you are seen quickly, it's non emergency procedures that are slower.
A neighbour of ours went in with heart problems, within days he'd had a life saving procedure on his heart.
However they sometimes aren't even that slow for none urgent. I injured my hip 2 years ago - I had an MRI within a week and a second contrast one a weeks later for further investigation and a further one 2months later to see how it was healing. Guess what all 3 were free! I would not be covered by insurance in the US as I have a pre-existing medical condition which I have had since I was 19. It's amazing how insurance companies can link the possibility of anything wrong with me to that condition or the meds and therefore even if I could get cover won't pay out. (I used to have a private policy as part of my employment and basically it was worthless due to exclusions)

[LemonadeRayGun]

I think we are fortunate in the UK as we have the option of NHS or private healthcare. I have a friend who has a high level health insurance here in UK, she pays a fairly high premium every month but it covers so much, she recently had to see a specialist and she had an appointment within 24 hours with GP, who referred her onto the specialist within another 24hours, she had to have an op which was done within the week. Private hospital room, super posh and efficient fabulous healthcare. For those who can afford it in the UK, the option to go private is there. Health insurance options are there. But for those who can't afford it, the NHS is an amazing blessing. I don't know much about USA healthcare but I do feel we have the best of both worlds here in the UK.

[sashh]

I recently had a over 6K MRI and most of it was paid for, the deductible was paid by Dh's plan.

How on earth does an MRI cost 6K?

www.privatehealth.co.uk/private-healthcare-services/diagnostic-imaging/mri-scans/mri-scan-prices/

[LookingThroughTheFog]

Part of the trouble with discussing healthcare is that everyone has anecdotal stories which tends to lead their bias.

I think that it is fairly clear that the NHS could be improved with some proper, joined-up-thinking thought. There is more diagnoses and treatments available for Mental Health now than there was 50 years ago. These days there's a clear and obvious need, but the resources aren't quite there yet. Ditto occupational health and SEN related services. The use of these is a much higher proportion of the NHS than they were 50 years ago. There is a greater pressure on the system these days. Costs have been reduced by using nursing assistants rather than nurses, which has a knock on effect elsewhere. It's one of those things where I think we need to go back to the drawing board and assess everything again based on the needs that the current society has, and the resources that we have to help, rather than just fixing bits piecemeal and over-focussing on quotas and so forth.

My anecdotal stories make me very pro-NHS. They saved my daughter's life. In fact they saved it twice. Before her first hospital stay, she saw a doctor every week for about 2 months. A friend in Ireland pointed out that visiting her doctor costs 60euro's a pop. We didn't have that kind of money. I'm astonishingly grateful that at no point did I have to think 'can I justify spending this money on my daughter? Maybe she's not really that ill'. There was already so much going on and so much self-doubt. On that last day, if I'd have allowed the thought 'can we really afford this?' to enter my head, we wouldn't have got her to the hospital on time. We did. She's a happy and bouncing 6 year old now. I don't know how much her emergency stay and operation would have cost. I don't think it would have been cheap.

Similarly, I have bipolar disorder. I have a pre-payment card for my medication so it only costs £10 per month (I have 2 or 3 prescriptions per month). I see a psychiatrist once every month or two. I had access to a CPN when I needed one. I've had intensive and extended therapy which would have cost thousands. Again, not once have I had to think 'can I really afford to be helped?'

I am very, very lucky that I was channelled so quickly into the mental health services I need. I had to get pretty desperately ill for that to happen. For a long time I fell between the two available services - 'wellbeing' for new depressives who needed help with medication settling and CBT, and who generally were fine when they were established, and the more extreme psychiatric service for psychotic illnesses. So for a long time we sat and waited until I keeled over into that second group. It wasn't ideal, but when I got there, it was brilliant and I was fine.

So yeah, I'd say that there are things that I would alter in the NHS. Finding another way to resolve that 'call at 8:00 for an appointment thing would be one of them. I definitely would not fix it with compulsory insurance or payed for services though.

I'm pretty sure that if I moved to the US, I would not be insurable. Nobody would take on someone with bipolar, or if they did, it would be prohibitively expensive. So I'd be on of the 'sucks to be you' people.

[LookingThroughTheFog]

How on earth does an MRI cost 6K?

Which is the other thing about charging for service. In a free market, the person delivering the MRI can charge whatever the hell they want. An MRI isn't really the sort of thing where you can go to the shop next door to get a cheaper one.

[Kendodd]

Question about US healthcare, good insurance/bad insurance/no insurance?

How do they allocate resources in short supply that can't be brought, only donated? I'm thinking specifically of human organs for transplantation?

[StarlingMurmuration]

Mewling, I really like the idea of an itemised bill from the NHS. I recent, spent 3 nights on an antenatal ward being observed, one more night than strictly necessary - they wouldn't let me go until I'd had a growth scan, and the midwife assigned to my ward forgot to tell me they had scheduled me on the afternoon of day 3, meaning I ended up staying til the afternoon of day 4 when they could fit me in again. I'd like to know how much that cost the NHS. I know mistakes do happen and it obviously wasn't the end of the world, but I am curious.

Of course, on the other hand, it would add another layer of admin to the whole thing which would probably cost quite a lot of money better spent on treating diseases etc.

[madhairday]

I'm sure care is great in the states for those who can pay, but an awful lot of people fall through the cracks, which simply doesn't happen with the NHS.

I'm also on an international support group for a rare disease. A lady on this board from the US had somehow slipped into a cracking where she simply couldn't access the health care she needed. Her insurance wouldn't cover life saving IV treatment. She lost her house and everything she owned. Couldn't access disability payments but lost her jobs due to her disease.

She died of pneumonia. The shock in our little community - most of us are in hospital a couple of times a year with pneumonia / chest infections and thanks to the NHS do fine. But she died. I'll never forget her increasingly desperate posts about not being able to get her insurance to cover what she so much needed.

Yes, anecdotal, and there are things about the NHS which have horrified me over the years. But I am also so very, very grateful for this institution which has kept me alive since I was a tiny baby with a lung disease.

[sashh]

I'd like to know how much that cost the NHS The staff on the ward would not know, the person doing the scan would not know, and to be honest they wouldn't care about the cost.

I worked in both the NHS and private systems, the private systems employs so many more people just to add up and send bills, but the bill isn't really based on the actual cost.

Eg your hospital stay obviously had a cost, but if you had not been in that bed would someone else be there? On the other hand if you were not there and the bed was empty the same Drs, nurses, cleaners, catering staff etc etc would still be paid. The only possible saving would be the cost of bedding and food.

In a private hospital you would be charged a room rate for the extra day, but your care would not cost that much you would be charged the same as a 4* hotel and the only difference in cost would be the observations the nurses take because everything else is charged for.