To check it's not normal to be spoken to like this?

[ToughTimes1]

I feel like I'm going mad sometimes but think I've just had a very uncomfortable lightbulb moment in my marriage.

My DH has just told me to 'F*k off' several times during a minor row, and when I told him it was disgusting to be spoken to like this and I didn't want to be in a marriage like this he said 'You're going to divorce me now you fing bitch? Divorce me then. You're going to take my son off me you Fing bitch? Go on then.' I then went to leave the room and he was in my face, hand on my shoulder, not wanting me to go (with anger, not out of apology), I told him to leave me alone, get his hands off me etc. and as I walked by he pushed me saying something like 'F off, bitch' again. The push wasn't any more than a tap - it isn't right though is it? And as for the language and losing his temper so quickly, I feel he is completely out of control.

Believe it or not, we have a very close, affectionate, stuff in common, laugh a lot relationship, he is a fantastic Dad and always there for me blah blah, but when we row it is horrible. We've had a bad patch recently and I've begun to wonder if he is quite emotionally abusive as he's very 'good' at arguing and I'm often left feeling like I'm to blame when the starting point is he's snapped at me or said something not very nice, etc. etc. Anyway, we were trying to work on things, and I was beginning to accept this 10% unreasonable behaviour, as he was trying to not speak to me badly / lose his temper easily. However I am now upstairs shaking and thinking that it really isn't normal is it? Our arguments never feel healthy, I never feel I get to have my say, and things always seem to get turned around.

Does anyone else's DP speak to them this way whilst still having a good relationship? Or have I had my head up my arse for 7 years?

I haven't posted this in relationships as I really do want to know what is normal - or not, and I guess most people in relationships have been in bad relationships and I want to be given it straight / objectively.

Thanks.

[Dontknowwheretostart22]

Zombie thread but wondering how things worked out for you OP? I’m currently in your shoes, with 2DCs. I don’t know what to do I’m feeling so low.

[StillFrigginRexManningDay]

OP I think you know that his behaviour is abusive. You are already modifying your behaviour so you don't set him off and even at 15 months your ds is going to pick up on this and start doing the same. He is not a fantastic father, fantastic fathers do not show their children how to abuse their mother.
You can stay with him and walk on eggshells, accepting the abuse and the fact that your son may grow up to be the same.

[rocket74]

To me it's normal but over the past couple of years I realise its not and despite some counselling I don't think anything will change. I am trying to put in place an exit plan but feel really helpless and unsure. I could have written your post but just replace bitch with cunt and that's all.

[AskBasil]

"When to give dh some space"

You mean walk on eggshells round him?

What would happen if you didn't give him space?

It's fine, normal and healthy to give people space to calm down and think things through. It's not normal, fine and healthy to have to back off and not seek a resolution because if you pursue a theme, the threat of violence returns.

Re going to relationship counselling, Relate won't see couples where abuse is a factor and it definitely is here, though not all counsellors are good enough to recognise it. But your DH has an abusive mindset. In cases such as Myrna has described, counselling can be brilliant and things like CBT can work wonders, but her DH always knew it was his problem and never tried to dump it on her. That's not what you're dealing with OP.

It's not your fault for not spotting it earlier btw. Please don't blame yourself for being a normal woman in our culture. You didn't cause this and there's no reason why you should have some special powers of discernment that enable you to spot abusive behaviour from a DP when the whole of your culture is telling you that the behaviour only becomes a deal-breaker when it escalates to regular physical violence.

[Purplepoodle]

My dh was like this when he became depressed. I left him. He went to the doctor and got medication and counselling. We then went to relate to rebuild our relationship. It took me leaving for him to realise he had an aggression issues. It took me going to relate for me to realise I needed to stop chasing him around the house once an argument started to try and make my point. It took a while but we learned how to argue sensibly iykwim, to able to make points without turning into an argument and when to give dh some space

[thoughtsescapeme]

My ex used to do this. I remember him stomping around downstairs slamming doors and raging what an f'ing bitch I was (over and over). I never told anyone because I knew that once I said it out loud I would have to leave. I used to be scared that he'd completely flip, and by the end I actually used to tense up walking into my street.

I was so relieved when I left (after 5 years) and wished I'd gone earlier.

[MrsBigginsPieShop]

I honestly can't recall DH ever telling me to fuck off, ever, in eight years. And we argue; that's normal. Swearing is not that unusual in anger. But swearing AT someone is different. And the push is definitely NOT ok. So, no, it isn't normal I'm afraid. And I speak as someone who tolerated a very violent and abusive relationship from an ex.
And please don't try to water down what he does or justify it - a push is a push.
It isn't normal or healthy.
It's almost impossible to reason with someone who can out-argue you. Is suggest Relate ASAP so he can see from an outsider how wrong his behaviour is.
Do not put up with this - you are worth more

[Fairenuff]

Does he treat other people like this OP, or is it just you?

No, not normal, it's abusive and it's escalating.

[tittifilarious]

Occasionally DH & I have shouted and sworn at each other - I'm thinking maybe 5 times in 20 years. I think if I was scared of him or felt bullied in any way I'd have a different perspective than a rather embarrassed "we both went too far".

I'm glad you're listening to your instincts. There's some very good advice on here.

[MyrnaLoy]

When he understood how serious this is did you get any sense that he would go away and think about it? Could the "hard look" at his own behaviour include external help? Is he someone who comes to things slowly?

Is the idea that you could leave new to him? If it is, and he thinks about it tonight, that might lead him to propose action that he could take.

What you call a therapy ultimatum could work if he then commits to it and takes it seriously, but not if he walks through the motions to, as he sees it, placate you.

You don't have to do anything rapidly. Take your time to know what is right for you.

[ToughTimes1]

I have sworn at him in the past if he's been really horrible / said something outrageous and tonight after all he said and did I told him to f* off back so in that sense I appreciate I swear at times too but it's always after he has called me horrible names or been particularly vile rather than an 'equal' sweary slanging match because that's how we talk iyswim.

[ToughTimes1]

Thanks a lot googoo, I will tomorrow

[ToughTimes1]

Well I've just been to lay it all out and should have known it was the usual 'takes two to argue' response from him and that I paint myself as an angel. He did say he was very wrong and sorry for the swearing and push but that he would never ever do that in front of ds and I shouldn't get all 'eastenders' by suggesting this was something that would become a lot worse and in front of ds in the future. I didn't even respond but feel quite sick at his reasoning and statement that he can control himself when needed but this happened because it could / ds was in bed.

He said a lot of other stuff too, that I've broke his heart saying I may want out of the marriage and I always put others feelings before his. This really isn't true, but the row was about sorting something important for my family and the childcare dilemma it left us with. He said I wasn't putting ds first but I feel him saying that was unfair, untrue and manipulative and it's left me feeling quite cold that he would suggest such a thing about our child.

I think from all of this he is unwilling to get help or accept he needs to change (though he said he will take a good hard look at himself over the rage tonight.) I feel he always wants me to give more and I honestly don't think I can. I don't know what the hell to do.

I guess I can give him a therapy ultimatum but if he doesn't think he needs it I suppose it will be fruitless.

[Laquitar]

The posters who said that they swear at their partners i think it is a different case.

Some people swear. They -and the culture they grew in- considare it ok. But they both swear . At each other. I have known couples like this.

OP what would happened if you swore at your h?

[googoodolly]

P.S, if you want to message me about any of it or talk in private, feel free to drop me a PM

[thegreylady]

Hi have been married 3 times now. One had an affair, one died after a long illness against which he raged and swore and the third is my beloved soulmate of 26 years. So in total I have been married for most of 50 years with a couple of short breaks.
Obviously there have been some rows and very occasional shouting matches
In all that time I have never been told to f* off or been called a bitch or any other abusive term. No man has ever laid a finger on me in anger and I would not have tolerated even a push that was more than playful. What you describe is very far from normal and I could not stay with such a man.

[googoodolly]

OP, my DP had anger issues too. I posted about it a while ago on relationships and lots of people told me to leave. However, his temper was a general thing - he got angry easily over lots of things - video games, work, whatever - it wasn't just ME he got angry with, it was everything.

He got into therapy a couple of months ago and I've already seen a massive improvement. When he gets angry, he knows how to deal with it now, whereas before it kind of overwhelmed him and he just didn't know what to do with himself, so it continued building.

Arguments used to last hours because he couldn't calm down. Now, they're over within five/ten minutes, which a MASSIVE improvement. We also fight a lot less than we ever did before. This only two-three months down the line.

But, he accepted the anger was HIS problem. It wasn't anything to do with me. It was his issue to deal with. That's what needs to happen with/to your DH in order for things to get better.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

He is a abuser.

He put his hands on you in a violent way because he was angry and could not manage his own anger. Does he treat his friends/work colleagues like this? I bet he doesn't.

Saying you wind him up or made him do it is classic abuser unwilling to take responsibility for his own actions

[Summerisle1]

I have friends who have been in - and got out of - abusive relationships.

In all cases they, too, had been conditioned to believe that they were at fault and that it was their behaviour that triggered things off. Had they not "continued to argue" or "not started a difficult conversation at the wrong time" then things wouldn't have turned out badly. If you are told this often enough and for long enough then yes, you start believing that you are responsible. But that doesn't ever make it right or acceptable.

Also, the abuse steadily increased over time because let's face it, nobody stays in a relationship if it is abusive from the outset. Instead, an "occasional" push or shove gradually became less occasional and eventually became an inevitable conclusion to even the slightest disagreement.

The friends of mine who got out of their abusive relationships all talk of a "light-bulb moment" when they stopped trying to normalise things and instead, realised that they'd had enough. One particular friend said it was the day that she realised that if she was asked to counsel a friend in a similar relationship, she'd advise them to leave.

I'm not saying that you should walk away right now this minute. But I am saying that there are red flags that you cannot afford to ignore. Especially as you have a child to consider too. It's not healthy for you and it is certainly not at all healthy for your child to be brought up in an abusive environment.

[Trollsworth]

Toughtimes, I really do understand the temptation to minimise. With an ex, I did it myself for years. But what made me crack, and get rid, was that he either wouldn't or couldn't stop, and that it didn't matter which because the impact on my children was the same either way.

I loved him, and it's ok to love anyone you want to love, but it's not ok to make a child live with someone abusive x

[MyrnaLoy]

I think the day when I was scared of him (and showed it) shocked my partner so much that he would have done anything to make sure that never happened again. That's qualitatively different isn't it, to a situation where the the person tries to minimise, or convince you that your reaction is the problem.

I can imagine some of what you are feeling at the moment but I want to say, really strongly, that this is not a situation where you have been at fault. You've described yourself a few times in ways that make me think you are blaming yourself for not seeing this before. This isn't your fault - we all push things away to a greater or lesser degree.

[ToughTimes1]

Yes Myrna you're right, I'm always at least in part to blame, according to him. It sounds like I'm less likely to get a happy outcome here. I'm really glad your dh getting help has had such a positive impact though, I guess a bad-temper in itself isn't the end of the world, but a bad attitude with it could well be.

Thanks to everyone for replying btw and so quickly. I'm still shaking but calmer than I was and this thread is stopping me from doubting my instincts on this. I just wish I hadn't ignored my own judgment in the past

[Trollsworth]

I've been in a relationship fir five years and never once has he even come close to speaking to me like that.

But then, we rarely argue anyway. The worst thing we've ever said to each other was when he asked me to stop being an into.erable bitch (I was) and I sweetly, through gritted teeth, replied that of COURSE I would, the very moment he stopped being a supercilious cunt.

But there is no tone to it. It sounds, if you are shaking, like there is a lot of aggression and high feeling in your rows, and tbh it's worryin that younthinkmits normal to row a lot - it isn't.

[UncleT]

What you describe here is absolutely unacceptable. Walk.

[MyrnaLoy]

Cross-post - you've answered my question I think.