Is DNiece being unreasonable or is her DH's Ex?

[Sunna]

DN is stepmother to one child and mother to 3, the youngest with her DH.

They and his ex have a cordial relationship and all parties are flexible about access. Her DSD (aged 9) is with her and her DH about 40% of the time on average.

DH's job involves him being on call one Sunday in four. He isn't usually called in but has to go if called. Ex has been happy for DN to look after DSD, even when DH isn't there. Usually this happens before and after school as well and it's worked fine until now.

Last weekend DSD did something dangerous that could have hurt her baby sister. DN explained why it was dangerous and that it mustn't happen again. Within an hour DSD did exactly the same thing again and admitted it was deliberate because her sister "was being annoying". DN again explained that she could have hurt her sister badly and put her on "time out". DSD sulked when she was "released" from time out after 10 minutes and was still grumpy when she went home.

After DSD had gone home Ex phoned and was very angry. She has said that DN is not allowed to discipline DSD at all, only DH. After talking to DH DN told Ex that, if that was the case then next time DH was called into work she would take DSD home to her or not have her at all on weekends when DH is on call. Plus she would no longer look after DSD before and after school, unless DH was also there because it was her home and her rules. And all DCs in the house had to keep the rules. And she wouldn't make an exception of DSD.

Ex wasn't at all happy and said she didn't mind DN looking after DSD (it suits her more than it suits DN) just that she wasn't to discipline her. DN finished the conversation by saying that in future she would not undertake any childcare unless DH was also there.

Ex says this is unreasonable because she'll have to pay a child minder. DN and her DH say that's tough, it's her choice.

I think DN is right but I'm biased.

[Frontier]

Of course Boney, that's what I said, based on the info we have of course DN is right.

But what if Ex has been told DSD was unreasonably or over harshly punished? What if Ex is only actually upset about a specific form of punishment? What if the complaint is that all the children were at fault but on DSD was punished? We know Ex has been happy up to now with DN providing childcare, so it seems likely to me that there's more to this and OP can't possibly know if that's the case.

[Sunna]

It's true, I don't know the full story but I do know my niece. She's quite a strict parent, as is her DH, and all DCs have to keep the house rules. She's also a "gentle" parent, not at all shouty just very firm. DSD was very jealous when the baby was born but did seem to have got over it.

I see them a lot, they live nearby, and they always seemed to be a good example of how families can blend. DH wonders if Ex has issues with the baby. She always wanted another one and isn't in a relationship now.

Maybe that's overthinking it.

[Frontier]

Oh I'm sure Sunna, just think it's like DN, Ex and DSD have each put their own spin on a basically true story.

[Castlemilk]

'But what if Ex has been told DSD was unreasonably or over harshly punished? What if Ex is only actually upset about a specific form of punishment? What if the complaint is that all the children were at fault but on DSD was punished? We know Ex has been happy up to now with DN providing childcare, so it seems likely to me that there's more to this and OP can't possibly know if that's the case.'

But while all that is true and absolutely fair, it still doesn't change the point that the ex simply doesn't get to say 'Yes, I want you to continue to spend your time caring for my child in your home, largely because that is more convenient for me, BUT I want to be able to enforce rules, as if you are a paid childminder, WITHOUT paying you, and also disregarding my child's other parent's right to also make decisions on her care.'

Nix.

• what's on offer is care in DN's home to DN's rules. You get to accept, or vote with your feet.

[Frontier]

Of course Castlemilk, DN gets to say if she's prepared to have DSD, full stop. OP was asking if she's right to react the way she has to this specific situation. The answer is we can't possibly know.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Frontier, isn't the specific situation that the DN is now not allowed to discipline/sanction the DsD in her own home?

[Sunna]

ExW has said that DN was too strict in punishing DSD for nearly harming the baby. She feels that DN should be more understanding because DSD is jealous and so shouldn't be punished. And that because DN is too strict only DH should punish DSD in future.

DN's stance is that if she is in charge of DSD then she will discipline DSD in the same way as her own DCs and if ExW doesn't like that then DSD will only visit when DH is there. She did point out that DH would have done exactly the same as she did, maybe more.

Usually DN and DSD get on really well and she loves being with them.

[however]

DN is wrong. It's unreasonable to simply say you aren't prepared to look after your stepchild anymore after what has been a previously harmonious relationship. How on earth would that make the stepchild feel??

Of course her mother is being unreasonable also, but a little maturity and rational discussion would go a long way. Oh, and some involvement from the child's father.

[RainbowB7]

Dn is right and of course dds needs to be disciplined for endangering a baby especially on purpose as she admits!

[BoneyBackJefferson]

however

So the rights of a 9 year old override the rights of a baby?

[Nanny0gg]

Of course her mother is being unreasonable also, but a little maturity and rational discussion would go a long way. Oh, and some involvement from the child's father.

How could he be involved? He wasn't there! That's the whole point - DN needs to be able to discipline/run her household as she sees fit when she is on her own and as they see fit when they're together.

I also don't think she should have to defer to her DH either. How undermining is that?

[Frontier]

Assuming DN is having the DSD on her Dad's days isn't it actually DH who has a childcare problem if DN doesn't do it?

[MammaTJ]

I was a step mother and had similar from DStDs mum. She was told in no uncertain terms that any child in my care had to be disciplined as appropriate by me there and then otherwise they would not be in my care at all.
She soon realised that was a better option than scrabbling round for alternative child care!

[Sunna]

As a favour, since being on maternity leave, DN has taken DSD with her 2 older children to school and collected her and kept her with them until she's collected by her mother. She's dropped off at 7.30am most school mornings, I don't think I could put up with that.

DSD sleeps at DN's most Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. DH takes all the children to school on Mondays so DN can have a bit of a lie in.

DH has told Ex that he's happy for DN to discipline DSD wile in her care and if Ex isn't she'll have to make other arrangements and pay for them.

I think DN is right to dig her heels in and I hope Ex sees reason, things have been so friendly up until now.

[however]

Nanny, I think that all parents should be involved when it comes to a child/stepchild's discipline. Of course he wasn't there at the time but the issue is still unresolved. He should be involved in resolving it. Maturely. They all should.

Unfortunately everyone is saying "it's my way or the highway" which is only going to escalate things resulting in changes to care arrangements and general disruption which will then make the stepchild feel like shit.

I think all the adults are behaving badly.

[however]

And to boney who asked if the rights of a 9 year old override the rights of a baby...

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said, right?

[Sunna]

however, only one adult is behaving badly. Another adult wants to protect her baby from harm and the third adult backs her in this.

One adult needs to accept that all adults in DSD's life get to discipline her when she needs it, just as they can all enjoy her company when she's not being a pain.

DN will be happy for the former arrangements to continue as soon as Ex agrees that DSD has to keep the house rules like the other DCs, or take the consequences. If Ex doesn't want that then it's up to her to make other arrangements.

[BackforGood]

Of course DN and her dh are right.
If you are related or not, you can't leave a child in the care of anyone that you don't allow to enforce rules / boundaries, and, if necessary, punishments. The Ex might need to grasp that about a Childminder or staff in the Out of School Club too.

[however]

I understand your view completely, Sunna, and the likely outcome. You don't need to explain it to me. I've already summed it up nicely in the second paragraph in my post at 13:15:27.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

however


Ok Badly written.
But the implication is that the 9 year olds feelings are more important than the safety of a baby.

[clam]

"resulting in changes to care arrangements and general disruption which will then make the stepchild feel like shit."

Then the stepchild ought to take a look at her own behaviour, maybe? She's old enough, at nine, to know you don't hurt a baby deliberately.

[tittifilarious]

dietstartsmonday
Dn is of course right. how can she be responsible for a child she cannot discipline at all. even a childminder could discipline!

This is the crux of it.

[Castlemilk]

There's also the very important point that up until now, the ex has not only accepted the DN taking care of her child, but has actively sought it - enjoying the benefits of quite a lot of unpaid chldcare (NOTE: ie over and above normal contact time, which is quite different of course).

By doing this, she has effectively already said 'I trust you to care for my child - I am not simply accepting that contact time has to happen and you will be there for it, I have voluntarily put my child in your care at extra times when you've offered.'

That is important - because as anyone who's even agreed to a playdate knows, when you pass them into someone else's care - you know they will have to discpline/control them in order for them to be safe - so you make sure - or you should! - that you are happy that their brand of discpline and control is ok with you.