Is this verbal aggression?

[tisrainingagain]

Without setting the context of our relationship, I would like to ask whether I was overreacting (in my head) earlier today during a conversation with h.

We were having lunch and we were discussing some ex family friends we have who are "ex" friends after h did their extension and they subsequently all fell out . In my opinion my "ex friend's" husband was very condescending/dictatorial (towards my h), but my ex-friend herself was very demanding and can (I think) be emotionally blackmailing, a bit scary and quite hard work (the kind of person who is always talking about herself).

H was saying he did not know why I think about them still as he never does. Easy for him to say as he doesn't see them at many pick ups and drop offs which is awkward as we don't speak.

Anyway, setting aside all of this and what may be another side to the story, I was then telling h that my ex friend had done some helping at our school and my other friend (who is part of the PTA) had said that she (ex friend) had sent so many demanding emails that she (current friend) had started to wish that she (ex friend) wasn't helping as it seemed more trouble than it was worth.

At this point h made a comment along the lines of "life at amoeba level". I then said that my (current) friend was anything other than an amoeba. H then rounded on me and shouted at me twice that I am a liar (eyeballing me) and asked me if he had said that this friend was an amoeba? It's the way he did it so aggressively "You're a liar! You're a liar!". I then had to justify myself and say that I didn't like his referring to the school life as "amoeba life".

I then went inside upset.

It probably wasn't a good idea to gossip about anyone which was my mistake but it was the unexpected and aggressive way in which he rounded on me and called me a liar which really took me aback.

It is possible that I misinterpreted what he was saying but could he not have expressed himself differently?

[tisrainingagain]

Thank you for your kind message and your encouragement dojo. Will get back to you when I have made some changes .

[tisrainingagain]

Thank you for your kind message and your encouragement dojo. Will get back to you when I have made some changes .

[DoJo]

I think a big de-clutter could be a good start - divest yourself of the trappings of your current life and engage in some fairly mindless tasks which will allow you to think about what you really want. You don't have to make any snap decisions, but if you imagine what your perfect life would be like, then you might get some inspiration for what you want to do next.

Do you have qualifications or experience in a particular field? Have you always had a hankering to do something? Do you just want a job which fits around your existing commitments and earns you enough to be independent?

In terms of your husband - do you want to confront him and see if you can work things out, or at least find out together whether your relationship has anything worth salvaging? Or would you rather get things together and just make an announcement to him and leave him to deal with it however he chooses? The former could reveal some home truths between you, the latter could be hard work, but both have their advantages, so you can decide how you want to handle things.

You are in control here, is the important thing. He may feel as though he is and you may feel as though he is, but the reality is that you are the one who wants a change, you are the one who is motivated to make things happen and you are the one who has realised that things need to change, so you can decide how and when you make it happen. You can do it, all you have to do is decide what 'it' is...

[sykadelic]

I actually don't think he was calling your friend a parasite, I think (based on what you wrote) that he was making a remark about you and what you were talking about.

He doesn't sound like he likes you at all, let alone loves you.

I would be making plans to move on.

[BlackDaisies]

I can't see that his comment meant anything other than how you interpreted it. It was a nasty little comment, completely disparaging about you and your friend/ ex friend, and your shared interest in school.

I think you should organise a free half hour with a solicitor, to see what your options are if you separate. Once you're out of a situation like that, it's such a relief. But believing you can leave and doing it is the hardest part.

[HappySeaTurtles]

No excuse for him to burst out randomly like that. Sounds like he has emotional problems that need to be addressed. That's not normal, or acceptable behavior.

[tisrainingagain]

Hi dojo and others

it sounds like you need to do something - I agree but not sure what this is. At the very least I want to do a massive declutter and find work for when the kids go back to school in September, but I cannot convey to what an extent I constantly obsess about the state of things (and the sheer loneliness of it) between h and I and how much I am kind of incapacitated by it. Or maybe I am using this as an excluse ?

Yes I don't think h cares how I feel. It's not even that, I think he has very little idea or if he does he blames me for it.

MrsWedge I am full of admiration that your husband and you went to counselling separately. I think that would be ideal for h and I but he would never agree to this (much as I think he needs it ). I can't remember if I mentioned it upthread but we did go to counselling together for a bit 2 years ago. H stopped coming after 5 or 6 sessions. I also went by myself for 2 years and stopped going last summer.

Thanks for your encouragement. My issues is that I just don't know what is best . Am wishing someone would just tell me .

[MrsWedgeAntilles]

OP, I have a pretty rubbishy relationship history and I found counselling to be really, really helpful, both to lay the ghosts of the past to rest and to work on the present.
DH and I had a shit time late last year and I feel it helped me to think clearly and make good decisions. We went individually to begin with and when we got to the point where we could talk to each other again and felt the relationship might be worth saving we started to go together.
I say this with the caveat that if you are at all in fear of him or there is the tiniest hint that he is abusive don't go with him. To get the best out of it you need to lay yourself bare and you don't want to be doing that with someone who may use that against you in the future.

You absolutely do have it in you to do what's best for you, its amazing what we can do just because we have to.

[DoJo]

If he is under pressure, then he should be finding respite in his family and his relationship with you, not taking it out on you and certainly not bringing it all home to share. It doesn't sound like he even cares that he is upsetting you - if I had made a throwaway comment that my husband had misinterpreted then I would be falling over myself to make sure he didn't think I was being mean to him, not shouting at him and making him feel bad for getting the wrong end of the stick.

If none of you are happy (because, much as he sounds like a dick, it doesn't sound like he is particularly happy either) then it sounds like you are the one who needs to make the change happen. It might not come to divorce, it might mean that you have to make a new start, but it sounds like you need to do something.

[tisrainingagain]

Oops sorry posted twice.

[tisrainingagain]

Not to please him as such but to have something to talk about .

I don't think it was the gossiping per se which he reacted to (but I do think in general that gossip kind of "lowers the vibrations") but the fact that I interpreted his amoeba comment incorrectly (apparently).

I don't think this farce of a relationship is good for me either . The question is what to do about it and how. H is under a lot of pressure but it has been like this for years.

[tisrainingagain]

Not to please him as such but to have something to talk about .

I don't think it was the gossiping per se which he reacted to (but I do think in general that gossip kind of "lowers the vibrations") but the fact that I interpreted his amoeba comment incorrectly (apparently).

I don't think this farce of a relationship is good for me either . The question is what to do about it and how. H is under a lot of pressure but it has been like this for years.

[MrsWedgeAntilles]

This stood out It probably wasn't a good idea to gossip about anyone which was my mistake

It might not be the nicest thing to do but gossip and sharing tales with your partner is a pretty normal part of life and you shouldn't be expected to put up with this sort of aggression because of it.
Can I ask you a question - did you bring the story of someone else speaking poorly of your ex friend to him to please him and is that something you feel you have to do?

Those two element alone make me feel that this relationship isn't a good one for you.

[confusedNC]

It's very recent for me tis, but thank you. As stressed, upset and worried as I am, I know nothing will be as bad as waiting for it to fall apart and living with a man who treats me badly because he made the mistake of marrying me.

I'd say you're waiting to see if it gets better or you're trying to figure out if your fears are true. I didn't leave. I waited until he was treating me so badly I couldn't ignore it so had to ask him. He still didn't leave. He wanted a divorce while still living together (and me washing and cleaning and cooking etc)

I feel I've wasted my best years. I expect lots feel this way. I can't tell you that your dh is same as mine but the anger and disrespect and your confusion all strike chords.

[DoJo]

I'm so sorry - it really sounds as though you need a new start without him dragging you down.

Being affectionate with the kids doesn't negate the negative impact of his behaviour on them - he may be a better parent than a husband, but he can do that without you being his emotional punching bag. I'm sure you will do whatever it takes to create a more stable life for your kids and you will all benefit in the long run - maybe you could use this weekend to job hunt and make a plan so that you have the positive momentum of working towards something to help you when things are tough.

[tisrainingagain]

In the past when it has come to this and I have talked about separating he has told me to f* off then.

In general he is very affectionate with the dc. I just cannot see the wood for the trees! Should find work before I do anything else really. Don't know why I am codependent in the way that I am. Thank you for your kind words .

[DoJo]

You know that you deserve better don't you? And your kids do as well. None of you should be accustomed to having someone this volatile in your family and there are plenty of people who can help, in real life and on here, whatever you decide to do about it. But you do have to do something.

What do you think he would say if you told him that you were considering leaving him over this? Would he be angry or sad? Because that might tell you whether there's anything even worth trying to salvage...

[tisrainingagain]

Thank you dojo. Your reassurances have made me cry (in a good way!).

My dc already sometimes talk in a similar way as a direct result, I think, of sometimes hearing him speak like this .

[DoJo]

No - I can tell you as categorically as is possible on an anonymous forum, there was absolutely no need for him to call you a liar. At worst you misinterpreted what he had said, and at best you understood exactly what he was saying and didn't like it. You are not a 'liar' for not wanting you and your friend to be talked about like that, even if it was an inference rather than something he stated outright. If he really felt that you were in the wrong, he should have been keen to explain and ensure that you didn't think that he thought so little of you.

am scared of possible divorce fallout for all of us.

Would it help to start thinking about the possible fallout and long-term damage that his behaviour will have on all of you? Do you want to see one of your children demonstrating this kind of aggression? Or dismissing you as a liar because they believe it to be a normal way to talk to you? Divorce is sometimes an incredible relief for children, and I speak as one who felt that relief.

[tisrainingagain]

I am sorry about your situation confused. It sounds like it was really difficult. I hope you are happier now.

[tisrainingagain]

Thanks confused. We went to counselling two years ago but he stopped coming after 5 or 6 sessions.

At the time I said I thought he didn't love me. He didn't say yes or no to this in the session but ridiculed me for having said it when at home.

In fact the counsellor did ask him how he felt about me and he answered that the dc liked me .

[confusedNC]

I went through years of confusion about his behaviour. Made myself ill with stress. Been treading on eggshells to avoid blow ups. Worrying it was my fault for not going to counselling or something.

In the end his behaviour was so hurtful and weird I had to ask him what's going on and he took a whole 5 minutes to explain our marriage was over. In the short time since then, he's said it's been over for years. It's the only thing that had finally made sense. All the nastiness and mixed messages.. He didn't love me. Shouldn't have married me. Shouldn't have had children with me. He's not sorry. Thinks it was all obvious so I shouldn't even be upset.

Don't let it creep up on you. If you're worried, make a stand and see if he cares.

[tisrainingagain]

Yes I understand (though I feel he has never acknowledged my loss of a friend) and maybe he was ham fistedly expressing his irritation, but then why accuse me of being a liar about something separate?

[Viviennemary]

Maybe he is still upset about the way he was treated when you all fell out and felt it wasn't sensitive of you to keep going on about this person when he had already said he didn't want to know anything about her. It is quite annoying when something has upset you but people insist on bringing it up.

[AbbieHoffmansAfro]

Well, we fell out with our architects and DH used to bring it up a lot. He seemed to want to rehash it. I couldn't bear to be reminded of it. I still didn't do what your husband did though-he was seriously out of line. Just picked my moment and said tht honestly, it still hurt to talk about it and could we not keep going back to it. There is no reason your husband couldn't have done the same.

So, YABU to keep going back to a painful event he probably has no desire to think about. But he is completely U, really massively U, to speak to you in the way he did.

Time for a serious talk with him about civility and respect.