to want to choose area / house size over secondary school?

[stilllovingmysleep]

Fact: we have a specific budget, a child who is nowhere near secondary so far (about to start year 2) & are thinking of relocating in a nearby area (we have some other options) that we like & can afford. For the amount we can afford, we can buy an OK 3 bedroom house in a number of areas. However, they either don't have secondaries at all or they're 'needing improvement'.

For the same amount of money, we would most likely be able to get a 2 bedroom flat in the areas where there are some better secondaries.

AIBU to want to ignore the issue, choose the area we like & can afford, get more space for our money, and put my head in the sand a bit for secondary in the hope that the 'requires improvement' school/s might improve within the next 5 years? Or that other options might possibly become available within the years, and in the meantime we'll have more space & thus enjoy our home life more?

(Not sure if this should have gone to WWYD thread rather than AIBU but here goes)

[LemonSquares]

The local mumsnet boards have been useful for the southern city I was looking at - London boards seem split into areas so people on there can probably tell you a lot more about the local schools and areas.

[MummyLuce]

...oh and I just realised you're talking about London. Go for the small flat and better school. Poor schools in London are hell on earth

[MummyLuce]

I think if your child is bright, they will do fine whichever school they go to and will benefit from all the advantages more space will give them. If your child struggles academically perhaps you should sacrifice space for the better school.

[ElephantsNeverForgive]

Branchingout I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a London education topic.

To those of us in the rest of the country it's another world.

[BranchingOut]

Honestly, as a Londoner/ex-Londoner, I think that you should start a new thread/name change and ask for opinions on the named area.

You will get much better and more useful info, as the context is so different in other parts of the country.

[LemonSquares]

All the LEA I looked have an on-line admission leaflet/form that gives the criteria for admissions for the next round of admissions , sometimes it varies where siblings come in lists, but they define the catchment boundary for each school– sometimes with maps other times listing roads so you can plot on a map.

I can't remember if they also give the distance the last DC was away that got in - but the data exists because I've seen it for areas we've looked at.

Other thing is google searches about named schools - in city we were looking at brought up for several schools local newspaper reports that stated last distances people got in and they were small- and how so many DC who were really close couldn't get in to certain schools - and in one case faced long journey to next secondary that wasn't as good.

That was point we decided that the accommodation compromises probably weren't worth it and looked at other areas previously dismissed. For a longer commute we can have a better house and an area where there are more good schools and more likelihood of getting in them – though we are still researching to see what pitfalls we might be missing

I suspect London isn't that easy a solution - though as I understand it London schools get more money than rest of UK and have now got better than average results - BBC does a compare secondary school thing which I think gave the value added score as well as results - at least I've seen that data as well somewhere.

[Iownathreeinchferrari]

Phone up the LEA and ask for a catchment map. It might be online if you search. The line does change occasionally though. The most important thing is to visit the schools though and then decide after.

[Mammuzza]

If you are in England.

If this takes off and does well.

If you have somebody who can be in the home during the school day.

Where you live may not the deciding factor in you getting access to a good education or not in the future

Having seen the growth in the private sector, my own son's school is growingclike the clappers and new ones have popped up, I wouldn't be at all surpised if there were several state school versions by the time your chilc is going into Y7.

Where families are able to spread their working hours out so somebody is home, or pull in a "watcher", it might be something of a game changer for those who can't afford the home they want in the vicinity of a non failing school.

There are still a lot of "ifs" at the moment. But worth bearing in mind if your circs would allow for that kind of option.

[EveDallasRetd]

The local secondary school where we used to live went from special measures to good in one year. The primary where we have bought our house went from satisfactory to good (with some outstanding features) in 3 years. Our catchment secondary has been outstanding for 5 years, but it could all go wrong tomorrow.

I'd got for the right house, schools can change like the wind I think.

[apermanentheadache]

And also you can be in the catchment area but too far away for a place. You need to ask the local authority forthe admission data and how far the offers went out for each of the last few years.

[Delphiniumsblue]

I was moving house- I didn't want to get it wrong.

[Delphiniumsblue]

I just walked I to the offices and said ' can I see the catchment area map'. You can then ask questions and be sure you get it right.

[stilllovingmysleep]

When you say 'education department' you mean start getting the info at the council websites?

[Delphiniumsblue]

Go to the education department and ask- they have maps. Don't make assumptions- they can be very odd e.g one side of a street being different catchment than the other side.

[stilllovingmysleep]

Thanks for your continued input, much appreciated. I also wanted to ask (as I have no idea) where to find out about school catchments. Are they as tiny as they can be for primaries? In London primary school catchments for sought-after schools can be absolutely ridiculous. I'm prepared to explore areas near a good secondary, but if it means going completely mad to try & be at the doorstep which will also be hugely overpriced, I'm going to pass... So would be useful to find out about what it is people mean when we say 'areas around good schools' as I really don't have the info for secondaries.

[Delphiniumsblue]

I don't know anyone who needed a tutor- the reason for putting school before house.

[FryOneFatManic]

Most families tend to employ tutors during secondary education at least in the couple of years leading up to GCSE's and earlier if their dc is weak in any core subjects.

Very few families around here do this. And many of the children get into universities no problem.

[Delphiniumsblue]

School every time. Location, location, location.

[Iownathreeinchferrari]

Schools can change hugely in a few years, so wait it out for a few more years

[Iownathreeinchferrari]

Over the next two years i would visit the schools on open days (not evenings when things can be hidden), read all the ofsteds, look at the grades. Then move year 4/5 to a ground floor flat in a nice area.

[BellMcEnd]

We've just done this: we're moving (fingers crossed) next month to a great house in a lovely area with plenty of space for our 3 children. The two eldest are at a brilliant, very over subscribed local primary (we're only moving a couple of miles from where we live now) BUT the two nearest secondary are average. The excellent secondary that two years ago we'd have had no problem getting the DCs into has just had a large, posh estate built on its doorstep which has resulted in the catchment area being halved. Yay. There's no way we could have afforded a decent sized (3 bed, not mansion) nearer to this school and personally, I think living in a much smaller house would be more stressful and detrimental to our family in the long run. I've highlighted 'personally' as I know that lots of people live in much smaller houses with the same amount of children but ours are very lively and loud. Our current house is quite small and is only going to get smaller as the DCs get bigger, iyswim. The best choice for our family is more living space 24/7 than the best school. Like a pp said about her SIL, we will be working hard with our children to achieve their highest potential, and, if appropriate, we'll look into the possibility of grammar schools but they're a bit young yet for that sort of decision.

Hope that all makes sense! Am aware I've waffled a lot!

[nooka]

stillloving I think that you just need to do more research, so look at the histories of the schools, the options in the areas without local secondaries etc. In London one thing to check is the movement in house prices as an improving area might be more likely to have improving schools too, and also be a much better bet for you, both for staying or for moving on later. Look also at what selection criteria are in place for more distant schools so you can see what options you are likely to have.

It is all a bit shit really, one reason why we left London for an area where all the schools were similarly good, and pretty much everyone sends their children to the local one. Education angst is very stressful!

[Minifingers]

My area has secondaries which are consistently rated 'good' or 'outstanding'.

People still move because they want their child to go to a school with fewer poor and ethnic minority children.

I suspect that often when people say 'good school' they mean 'school with lots of middle-class children and strong GCSE results', neither of course which actually means 'good school'.

[stilllovingmysleep]

Erin99, we might have another (not clear but might become clear in the next months) so that's an added complication which I'm choosing to ignore la la la la laaaaaaaaaaaaaa (head in sand).

I suppose another option to be to use our money to be a tiny flat of good quality in an area with good schools, rent it out, and rent something slightly bigger where we currently live (near our DS's primary); later sell, and go from there. Too complicated, it feels, but an option.

[stilllovingmysleep]

I'm getting quite discouraged reading this thread... In a way, there's no easy answer. All your points are very useful. But it essentially comes down to money, and the hard reality is that London prices have become just so high that a lot of ordinary options e.g. a good enough local school and a good enough home are out of reacth for a larger & larger number of families...