to wonder why people shop at Amazon?

[poppytripll]

Starbucks and the other well known tax dodging companies? If we need more money to pay teachers properly, fund the nhs etc then surely if we supported retailers that pay UK tax it may help? I don't buy coffee much but I use Costa if I do, as it's part of a British company that pays tax.

I also shop in Sainsbury or Waitrose because they pay UK tax as opposed to Aldi and Lidl. I'm probably over simplifying this so please tell me if iabu!

[theverysuccessfulone]

They are acting according to the laws. Would you want them to pay more just because it's the nice thing to do?

We need better laws.

[allisgood1]

I'm not going to pay more tax than I have to. I pay my "fair share", why should I pay more? And why should big companies have to pay more? What exactly do you want to see changed in the law?

[BadLad]

I buy as much as I can from Amazon. They make shopping an absolute pleasure - lying on the sofa, beer in hand, reading reviews of what I want while browsing beats paying through the nose for parking, trudging round crowded shops, dealing with surly staff and hoping that I can find what I want. Also Amazon are invariably cheaper, and usually have second-hand alternatives too. I love Amazon and buy as much as I can from them. Fantastic company.

[davidjrmum]

I don't shop on Amazon. Find it quite depressing that so many people just don't seem to care where they shop as long as it's cheap (quite understand that some people don't have a choice if very short of money but impression I get is that for most it's more a case of just not caring). I remember a lady on one forum saying that she had a shop on the local high street and often has teenagers or their mum's popping in seeing if she might have a part time job for them. Very often it's someone she has never seen before. Amazing how some people just can't see the connection between wanting their teenager to have a local Saturday job and actually supporting their local high street by shopping there! Actions do have consequences. Also, there are loads of things that don't break the law but which I think many people would find completely unethical.

[Iownafourinchporsche]

We live rurally and are time short so amazon is perfect

[Alicebannedit]

The Book Depository also sell new books through Amazon Market Place and you have to pay the usual 2.80 postage, but still a lot cheaper than standard Amazon copy with free postage.

I love Amazon because at the click of a button I can access just about anything, compare prices and feedback for most items, and delivery is always reliable and usually quick.

I am 75, have some mobility problems, and don't drive, so the fact that Amazon opens my eyes to just how much choice there is around these days keeps me interactive with life. Just as MN keeps me in touch with current trends and debate, and keeps my horizons open. My life is enriched by both.

[PomeralLights]

poppy your last question about what sort of society we want - I don't want one where I have to judge everyone I meet based on my imperfect knowledge of their actions/ and history according to my personal moral code. That's why we have laws. And the tax laws are Laws.

I don't want to buy coffee from someone who didn't pay tax and got away with it in much the same way as I don't want to buy coffee from a thief, or rapist, who got away with it. The scale of magnitude of the morally repellant act differs but the fact that I rely on the laws and institutions of this country to protect me from it does not. The tax laws should be fit for purpose and trying to construct a moral argument that doesn't rely on the law being appropriate weakens the integrity of the laws we should be able to rely on.

For me it's less about communism / capitalism and more about the concept of living in a functioning society with an effective legal structure.

[Neverknowingly]

i love Amazon. Great choice, price, customer service. They are not entering into sneaky little tax avoidance schemes exploiting loopholes or relying on HMRC not realising what they are doing. They are very rightly using the tax law exactly as is intended and as successive govts have chosen not to change.

I'm not a big coffee fan but if I WAS to go into starbucks it would be because of the starbuks logo above the door. It seems quite right to me therefore as a matter of simple economics that the vast majority of the profit that they make on selling me a coffee should be paid in royalties to the company which owns the brand (presumably resident in a low tax jurisdiction) rather than taxed in the UK. Just not an issue for me - legally or morally.

[weatherall]

I boycott these retailers.

I'm really shocked when people have 'ethical' jobs eg doctors and social workers etc don't consider the ethical implications of their life out of work.

City banking types - I have low expectations of.

[LemonSquares]

Amazing how some people just can't see the connection between wanting their teenager to have a local Saturday job and actually supporting their local high street by shopping there!

It is a vicious circle though.

I've tried using the local high street - but on so many occasions it doesn't have the things I need. The bus fare up is nearly five pounds more if I now have a DC in toe as they are all over 5 and pay. It gets to be a lot of money to take the chance when I can get it cheaper on-line and doesn’t waste as much time.

As more people shop on-line less there is in high street.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

The government introduced the tax laws they did to encourage companies like Amazon and Starbucks to expand in the UK. When they took advantage of those laws to do exactly that the goernment started looking shocked and spluttering.

I agree with the laws being changed. I don't agree that a few high profile retail establishments should be "shamed" into donating to our government's coffers. There are plenty of other businesses that it isn't so easy to exert that sort of pressure on. Far better to tell the UK government they need to work internationally to bring in a fair corporate tax environment for all companies.

[ScarlettDragon]

It's cheap, very convenient and sells everything. I don't personally stay away from companies because they don't pay tax, I will however steer clear of them if they have diabolic customer service. Amazon customer service is bloody amazing, they're so helpful, friendly and quick with it.

[HicDraconis]

Weatherall I'm not sure being a doctor is an ethical career choice. I did medicine mostly because I have a strong science bent, disliked maths and was fascinated by disease processes.

While I accept that I have a standard of personal behaviour to maintain (ie not bringing profession into disrepute) I don't see that I am bound to boycott nestle, amazon, Starbucks, etc.

I don't pay more in tax than I have to, I don't expect anyone else to. I don't think doctors should avoid international companies any more than nurses, street cleaners, teachers, admin assistants, musicians... you get the idea. I also don't understand why as a doctor you feel that my choices in my personal, out of work life, should be limited by my career choice.

[Andrewofgg]

Amazon have found a niche and offer a good service. As for tax, life is short, and allegations are cheap. It's not the task of consumers to read every retailer's accounts and tax returns.

OP You boycott anybody you like, but it's not your business whether anybody else does.

[GretchenWiener]

Meh if i found a legal tax dodge loop hole or had the money to get someone else to do it for me i would be THROUGH It like a shot

[bakingaddict]

Love weatherall's argument that what job you do should dictate whether you should be shopping at Amazon or not.

Perhaps only lawyers, estate agents and bankers should be allowed to buy from Amazon. If only all of life could be condensed into a very simplistic argument like that. If the government truly wanted to reclaim tax from Amazon et al to support the NHS then they should be actively changing the laws to allow them to do it more effectively. I don't see the government rushing to change the status quo and if the government has no desire to change the system then why should the main onus and emphasis be put onto people who want a bit of a bargain

[davidjrmum]

PomeralLights re "I don't want one where I have to judge everyone I meet based on my imperfect knowledge of their actions/ and history according to my personal moral code. That's why we have laws. And the tax laws are Laws." The notion that laws could cover every aspect of common decency, ethics, morality is pie in the sky. There's no law forcing children to share their toys when they have friends round to play, or older children to not use bad language in front of the grandparents. I'm glad most people aren't relying on the law to decide how they should behave. I'd rather buy from a company that paid their staff a living wage rather than the minimum wage if their finances could stretch to it.

[allisgood1]

I'm really interested to know from people who think the "laws should change" what exactly they want changed. No loopholes? So then all the corporations move to another country and we lose all the money we do get from their taxes? What?

[lacktoastandtolerance]

Do you have an ISA, OP? Or any friends with ISAs?

[Lweji]

Don't go to Nando's either.

[CinnabarRed]

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's Base Erosion & Profit Shifting study will reform the international tax framework so as to prevent egregious cross-border tax abuse.

The UK can't act in isolation - there has to be consensus across many countries.

This is a reasonable summary.

[WandaDoff]

I have a DD with severe autism & shopping trips are either a living hell with her or a race against the clock to get back to her before she starts kicking off with the person I 've left her with.
Also, the prices are higher in the shops & I am on a tight budget.

I love Amazon so much I pay for Amazon Prime.
I also do my food shopping online mainly & if I go into a supermarket it will be Lidl because they have good quality stuff for lowish prices & I live very close to one.

I'm OK with that.
I don't really care if anybody else is, it's none of their business.

[ouryve]

Because I like in the countryside and it's often the only place I can find things that I need.

[ouryve]

And the autism thing - shopping trips further afield where there is more choice than localish tend to be short and pointed because both of my boys have ASD.