To think in teaching my dc's to be kind, thoughtful & respectful I'm doing them a disservice?

[weedinthepool]

I know it sounds bonkers but the past couple of months have shown me that constantly being selfless & doing the right thing gets you nowhere!

I'm a good person. I don't stand on insects & kill them, I help old ladies across the road, I pick up children who are crying, I give to charity, I work in a public sector job, I don't judge anyone as I feel if you haven't walked in their shoes you shouldn't, I recycle, I buy responsibly etc etc.

I'm not perfect by a long shot but I try to make good decisions and try to get my dc's to do the same.

I've been turned down for a second job in a month today, I've been told off by my mum & stbxh today about petty stuff re the dc's, a horrible man cut me up, I didn't respond and he gave me the finger and DS2's friend has thrown a temper tantrum at school about sports day and got the gold that DS2 was beaming about last night. I've just read a shitty email from my current boss because I took AL on Wednesday to prepare for my interview and 'wasn't there for a family in need whose child care has failed. All in all I'm feeling that if you act aggressive, sulky, bossy or dishonest enough you get what you want. All these people have actually seemed to enjoy putting me down today & I feel like I'm making a mistake with my parenting & the dc's are not actually learning to be good people but doormats! Aaarggh. Rant over. AIBU to start getting aggressive? I'd rather not as it doesn't cone naturally but if anyone can give me tips on being assertive but still a nice human being please do so before I turn into Scrooge.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I have been mulling this over as well. I saw something online about consent and have been thinking about this thread since. It is very important to me that DD learns how to say no to certain things.

What do you all think about the following: stranger in a shop leans in and says, 'what a beautiful child' and strokes DD's hand. DD raises her voice and says, 'no' angrily while pulling her hand away. DD really doesn't like to be touched without permission. Good for her but I don't want her to be rude. Same with kissing rellies. I don't make her if she doesn't want to. But this is often seen as rude or pandering or spoiling. I've taught her not to grab (work in progress), not to hug or kiss without asking either physically (arms out) or verbally.

[Lweji]

There are a few resources online.

I found a library book about it.

[Earlybird]

have had a busy week, but saved this thread to read when I had time. Glad I did as it has given me something to think about.

weedinthepool - congratulations on the new job.

lweji - where does one learn about transactional analysis?

MrsTerryPratchett - valuable advice. Thanks for sharing it with those of us who are trying to ensure that our good manners/consideration for others/flexibility are a strength and not a sign of weakness!

[KouignAmann]

Weed you sound lovely and well on your way to a happier time!
I was thinking like you that I may have taught my children to be too considerate of others and unselfish. But in the last month both DDs have dumped their BFs (one for cheating and the other for not meeting her needs and not sharing her aims and values). They both did it kindly but firmly and with resolve that they deserve better treatment. I am SO proud of them and think in part they learned from the painful experience of living through my breakup with their DF who is an EA manipulator and had me dancing round him for 27 years.
So I think it is possible to be thoughtful and unselfish but still refuse to accept crappy treatment. And your DC will be nicer people because you brought them up!

[Lweji]

A big discovery for me was transactional analysis. It's not so much about assertiveness, but realising what role we are playing and bringing the interaction to adult level.
It has helped with mother in particular. :)

[AnAirOfHope82]

Interesting thread place marking for more assertiveness tips.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I have to say IamSlave I love communication theory. I talk for a living and I learn something every time we get the communication people in. Last time I saw them, they were talking about passive aggression and how it relates to society's expectations about women.

In so many words, your choices as a compliant woman are passivity where you get nothing you want but the other person gets what they want and passive aggression where you might not get what you want or need but at least the other bastard doesn't either. It has made me much more empathetic to PA people. Years of low-level abuse can make a PA nightmare out of anyone.

She spoke eloquently about her MIL who is the height of PA. It triggers her but she understands that a combination of gender, culture (she is Southern European), age and situation have made her MIL this way. Had her inherent bolshiness been encouraged (if she had been a man) she would have never developed the PA stuff.

[IamSlave]

i HAVE to admit I have thought this too...Mrs Terry P - am scribbling down notes..love savaged by a puppy

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Iron fist in a velvet glove, Tangerine.

Also, the same person who gave me ADESC also gave me, "if you don't ask for it, you don't get to bitch about not getting it".

[MrsWinnibago]

YABU. All you need is love. I stand VERY strongly beside the moral codes with which I was brought up. I'm not rich but I AM happy. I have a lovely DH (to be) and two stunning DDs. I also have ambition and a good time sometimes.

My DDs are popular and their school reports say how kind and thoughtful they both are.

That'll do me.

[Lweji]

:) Keep it going.

[Tangerinefairy]

cailindana that is a brilliant post.

[Tangerinefairy]

Yeah! Well done weedinthepool! Good for you! I know exactly how you feel. I think it is about balance. Don't always be the reasonable one, tell people they have pissed you off sometimes. It can be surprisingly effective and why should you always acquiesce?

My boss is just as you describe your colleague MrsTerry. I have such admiration for her. She is the most sweet natured, sincere, giving person but she has a rod of iron running through her and if she feels strongly about something you bloody well know it! Brilliant.

[weedinthepool]

Well Karma just kicked me well & truly in the are. I got the job!!! The rejection email was sent in error and the manager phoned me & offered me it verbally. So being decent & not kicking off demanding feedback and sitting on it for a bit worked!

Thanks so much to everyone. I Luke the small, softly spoken pleasant boss who TAKES NO SHIT. I shall be challenging that. And I stood up to stbxh with his bitching about the dc's diet and he backed off. I didn't feel like a bitch doing it I felt that what I was saying was in the dc's best interest and I didn't let what he thought dissuade me from challenging. Now just to tackle m mum I think I might try the 'Did you mean to be so rude line'.

[Rebecca2014]

I agree with you. I am a nice and shy person and because of that certain people at my previous jobs have tried bullying me...just because I am quiet!

The fact is the only thing people care about are themselves and their family/friends so fuck em all.

[CoffeeTea103]

You sound lovely, I don't think you should change that. You just have come across the wrong people who don't appreciate those qualities in someone.

[cailindana]

"Constantly being selfless" is definitely not a good way to live. You absolutely must look out for yourself. Why should others do that for you? That's not to say that you look out for yourself above all others, but there is no reason for anyone else to look after your interests, that is your job. Be kind, be considerate, but be clear on what you need and want and make sure you get those things, under your own steam and with your own initiative. Help others, definitely, but only if you can afford it and you are not expecting payback. People might criticise you, so what? They don't get to decide who you are. You do.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

gobbin I work with maginalised youth and that is exactly what I call it when I'm talking to them!

[AdamLambsbreath]

Weed, I have days like yours and I've wondered the same thing.

I tend to think that those who are selfish, dishonest and unpleasant are their own punishment. They seem to have got the better of you in those brief moments when you have run-ins with them, but remember they're living the kind of life that kind of attitude creates 24/7.

For example, the worst time of my life involved being screwed over by an employer during a terrible personal crisis. He was one of the most unpleasant and amoral people I'd ever met. He also has a failed marriage, a custody battle over his kid, can't get a girlfriend, has no friends, and is paranoid that everyone's out to get him. No, I couldn't protect myself from him or give him his comeuppance and yes, he had taken advantage of my honesty and integrity, but that didn't mean he'd won.

My dad said a helpful thing once, when I was angry about said man: 'Look, you wouldn't want to spend 5 minutes inside his head.' And indeed I wouldn't. It'd be hell in there.

It's hard to keep this in mind when you have a day FULL of shitty encounters, but I find it helps.

[gobbin]

ADESC sounds good. We know it as 'shit sandwich'! (Nice bit, nasty bit, nice bit)

[Damnautocorrect]

I'm EXACTLY the same, I watch other kids getting stuff over ds and think 'am I doing this wrong?'. I have the same values as you, I go through life trying not to upset or hurt anyone or anything, I dont judge, I don't say anything about anyone I wouldn't to their face.
Yet somehow at least twice a day I am reminded in someway that these values are probably worthless and get you nowhere. Wether it be some arse getting road rage or a mum pushing infront of me to get their child.
I'm having councilling for anxiety and this exact topic is up for my next discussion!

[MrsTerryPratchett]

The ADESC this is my favorite. It's an adaptation of a lot of assertiveness stuff with nice tacked on the beginning and end. Canadian, there's a surprise; assertive with extra nice attached. The recency effect means people remember the nice at the beginning and end and think you are a nice person, even though you just got what you wanted. Bwahaha.

[SiennaBlake]

I like that ADESC thing! I've never heard of that before! Can we do some more examples please please?

[BackforGood]

Yes, YABU.
Being kind, thoughtful and respectful are excellent qualities to have in life.
Doesn't equate to being completely protected from having bad days or weeks or months or years though, just means you have people there for you, when you need them, IME.

[SallyMcgally]

you sound lovely, and you're entitled to feel sore after all those shitty things happening to you.
It's so hard. I try to teach my kids to be the best person they can be, and DS1 has suffered a lot from bullying. But I'm so so proud of him for never ever being cruel, and never allowing himself to sink to the bullies' levels. Even now, when he stands up for himself he doesn't hone in on things that I definitely would have done at his age, because he would feel too bad. I think there's an element of truth in pushy people getting ahead sometimes, but I think ultimately you have a nicer life behaving with integrity as you do and as your DS does as well.
Have a for the end of a crappy week.