Oh fuck. Had a massive argument with ds. Said things I shouldn't. Now I don't know where he is

[snorkyorky]

It's pissing down. He doesn't have a coat or a phone. My husband has gone to look for him but he really could be anywhere. What do I actually do? He's 16. Just finished GCSEs

[Simplesusan]

I think you need to speak to your ds alone. He needs telling Ina very cal manner that he should be doing some house work.
Also when his siblings get older they will be expected to do it too.

Remind him that when he meets a partner he absolutely must respect and love them and one of the ways to show this is by pulling his weight around the house.

It is very difficult for you to have to pickup the slack all the time when his biological father is off the hook so to speak, take a deep breath, spend time with your da even if just to say what was your day like.

Don't let the younger dcs interrupt this time.

Show dcs you love him ,but he must respect you and not take any of you for granted.

[EmilyElephantTrumpets]

minisunshine I agree that kids don't have to have heard it anywhere- my point is that he is hearing it from OPs admission. Double standards that's all.

[D0oinMeCleanin]

Quote of the week goes to BOF

Hope things improve OP.

My only advise would be to try and find some common ground with DS and some one on one with him, when you can. Even if it's only listening to how great he is at once a week or so.

[BOFster]

Oh wind your neck in- how likely do you think that really is? You are generally a perfectly normal-seeming poster, so why is it that this thread has made you lose sight of the point of mumsnet, i.e. acknowledging that this parenting lark is often difficult and that we could all do with a bit of support? AIBU is not a licence to release DEFCON Twat.

[Canthisonebeused]

And op still makes this about how difficult things are for HER and how HE needs to tone it down. I do hope you didn't tell ds that things are so difficult because your period has stared.

[MimiSunshine]

EmilyElephant kids don't necessarily need to have heard it anywhere. The first summer I was home from uni. My sibling told me similar, they were used to being the "only child" and resented my presence back home.

OP I think your son needs a purpose, he sounds bored and selfish in the way teenagers can be.
I'm guessing you are fully supporting him (as he's a child) well I suggest he gets a job and a) starts earning his own money and getting some responsibility but also b) mixes with older peers. At the minute he's the usurped baby of the family so it's time he stopped feeling sorry for himself, meeting older peers who will think that ridiculous will be good for him.

But I do think you need to look at his behaviour and how you're dealing with it. Is he punsished or told off, or do you focus n counteracting it with your DC2?
My parents took that route and then used to tell me not to rise to it, inevitably I would eventually blow up at the bullying and then they'd tell me off (or so it'd feel like) for rising to it as I "should have ignored it".

That approach breeds resentmenton all sides, so I can't say strongly enough that he should be reprimanded each and every time. If he has pocket money then dock it every time he bullies DC2 but reward every time he's caring or helpful.

[drudgetrudy]

Cross-posted with Pancakeflipper-thinking the same

[drudgetrudy]

His behaviour towards his little brother is not acceptable and there need to be some boundaries, but look at the things he is saying--projection?

I would guess he is not happy and even possibly depressed.
As well as setting some ground rules I would try to make some time for non-judgemental listening to his perspective.
It can be difficult when you have younger children but perhaps making more time for him will help.

[Pancakeflipper]

I feel really sorry for your DS. His nastiness is due to how horrible he feels inside.
How much one to one time are you spending with him? How much positive words are exchanged between you?

I can imagine your life is hectic but he's screaming out for love, feeling valued and feeling important in your life. Rightly or wrongly he seems to feel dejected and rejected. Obviously you never meant this, but it's how he probably feels.

[Molio]

Enjoyingmycoffee You have a three year old but how experienced are you with troubled teens? I suspect not very, if at all.

I absolutely defend what I said about 'abuse' being an inappropriate term. In fact I hear the term used so much these days, not least on MN, that it's in serious risk of being wholly devalued. A 16yo is not an adult, he's a child and this particular 16yo sounds extremely unhappy and extremely vulnerable and it's not very clear that the mum gets it completely.

Posters strongly dislike the term rape being used lightly; I believe the same restraint should be deployed with the term abuse.

[QuailLegs]

I had only partially read the thread - glanced through it, but am shocked at this bit ' I think the isolation ds feels is a lot of his own making'. No, it's of your making. Sorry - but he lost you to a new family and you are his mum.

[QuailLegs]

I think you need to be telling your mum to reign it in. He's still a child and he is her grand son. Even you sound a little like you don't like him, though you obviously love him. I'm not judging as I know how tricky this age can be, but he sounds like he wants someone to be telling him that he is not ugly but beautiful and helping him to deal with the fact that his mum has effectively dumped a new family on him.

There was a family at school with this dynamic and the oldest son had school counselling in the end to work it all through.

Good luck, you sound like you have a hard job there and you can only stretch yourself so far

[Deemail]

Glad he's back safe and sound. I don't know if it's been mentioned but there's a great book for parenting teens "get out of my life, but first take me and Alex to town" really insightful and has given me lots more patience and understanding with my teens.

[cjelh]

Glad hes home OP. Don't underestimate the stuff a young child can pick up on. He has had a difficult life. It has been unstable on many levels. Living in a refuge and having you to himself to then share you with,DH and new siblings is very stressful for a child who doesn't have an emotional maturity. He now still doesn't have the emotional maturity to know how to deal with it. If his adult role model teaches him its ok to say 'piss off and live somewhere else' when he feels hes already less and less important in your life, no wonder hes playing up. Add to that a dad that hes not close to and a grandparent who doesn't like him and I'm not surprised hes hurting.

At what age should he be mature emotionally? You've been busy leaving X, Meeting DH, having more babys, when has he learned to be an adult. Just because he's 6ft 3 doesn't mean hes grown up any more than you are if you can tell your ds to P..O.. and live somewhere else.

[missymayhemsmum]

Glad he's back, op, but sounds like you and your DH need to have a straight talk with him. Has he acknowledged his part in the argument, and why you were so pissed off with him?
Try flattery- I'm sorry I lost my temper but I need to rely on you to start acting like a grown man not a spoilt boy etc. help around the house, acting like a caring adult around his siblings, etc. Be clear about what your expectations of a good man worthy of respect are- and make it clear to your son that that's what you believe (and expect) him to be. If he were a student sharing a house and ate someone else's dinner, what reaction would he expect?
He's old enough to understand that support goes both ways. You support him with his life, schoolwork, exams and by being there for him. You need some support from him too.
Maybe it's time to start treating him like the third adult in the household, not the oldest child?

[cardibach]

I'd be concerned about him not wanting a phone. I know they aren't essential to human life, I grew up without one after all, but I don't know any teenagers who feel like that (and I am a Secondary teacher). It suggests a desire to be isolated which could be an indicator for depression. Serious talks required I think.

[EmilyElephantTrumpets]

^"You are so ugly. You make me sick"

"No one likes you. No one wants you"

This is what the op has said her 16 yr old son calls his 3 year old brother.^

And I wonder where the DS is hearing this? OP said her mother doesn't really like him, 16 yr olds aren't dumb, he will have picked up on this. And then OP told him to 'piss off and go live with his father'. Hardly different from what the ds1 is saying to ds2. Does that make it abuse too? Or any more acceptable? Personally I think it's less acceptable and OP giving excuses and everyone else justifying why she's right to speak to him like this is making me sick.

[Enjoyingmycoffee1981]

Oh I do. Horrendous arguing. But note you say that you used to "batter each other".

Do you think the 3 year old is giving as good as he gets?

[macdoodle]

Do you have sibs? My brother and I used to batter each other......

[Enjoyingmycoffee1981]

No, he's the eldest.

But I fail to see your point in this scenario. Of the child calling the 3 year old was a five yr old older sibling the 3 yr old is a) less likely to take it so seriously b) the language used is likely to be less hurtful and offensive than that used by a 16 year old.

At 16, if he is bullying a three old, I would be very very concerned indeed. In my eyes, it's akin to torturing a kitten kind of behaviour.

[BOFster]

Yes, the isolation is a separate issue really, and I'd worry about that too- although it will probably turn out to be one of things that passes over time. Maybe do an archive search for teenagers+isolation, or repost in Teenagers for some ideas? Good luck- you sound like a very caring mum.

[snorkyorky]

Re the 1:1 time. I think we do okay actually at having time when it's just me and him. Maybe not as much as he'd like in an ideal world but I don't think it's significantly less than he'd get if I were working full time.

I don't like the talk of him having had a difficult childhood. It's true I messed up with my choice of father and it's true we spent a lot of ds's first year in a women's refuge but he doesn't actually remember any of this. We have only lived in 2 houses since we settled down when he was about 18 months, he's been to 2 schools (ie primary then secondary all the way through) and I've worked very hard to give him what he needs emotionally and materially. I only had one other boyf before meeting my now husband. He gets on well with my husband most of the time, they have shared interests and do things together. I think the isolation ds feels is a lot of his own making. It worries me as I said last night and I am keeping a close eye on him.

[snorkyorky]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still reading.

I have apologised for my actions but also had a long chat about some of the underlying issues - way he speaks to dc2, his laziness but also the fact that I'm knackered and am feeling especially ropey at the mo as my periods have just restarted after dc3.

I don't know what the answer is really re the way he speaks to dc2. I'm the eldest of 4 but with a big age gap so in many ways felt like an only. DH is an only so neither of us are that confident in knowing what's normal. I've heard friends say awful things about the ways they were treated by older siblings. I did speak to him at length this morning about it though and he's agreed to tone it down.

[BOFster]

That is good advice, macdoodle; I totally agree about the one-to-one time.

[macdoodle]

Sorry that was to coffee with a 3yr old sensitive soul.