"Family long term finances" - sorry, it's a long one

[Justfuckitupagain]

I've just logged onto the email account that DH and I share.

In the inbox, there is an email to DH from FIL with two things in the subject heading, and this is the second one.

I looked at the email (not particularly snooping - it's a shared account so please don't flame me) and it's obvious that there has been a conversation where bits have been deleted iyswim.

To give a bit of background, FIL especially is one of the most money grabbing gits I've ever met. He convinced his mother before she died to change her will so that he was favoured over his siblings. He openly admits this. MIL's father died last year, and he keeps going on and on about how they haven't received anything from the estate (MIL's mother is thankfully still with us so I just assumed that it would go to her? Not that it's any of my business of course)

Also, so as not to drip feed, before DH and I got together, FIL had an agreement with DH that, when buying a property, whatever DH put in as a deposit he would match. FIL insisted that this was a written agreement. When we bought the house (which I ploughed all my savings into and my mum and dad helped massively too) FIL announced over dinner that if we split up he wanted his money back with interest. Completely understandable, but actually it had fuck all to do with me - our finances were separate until we got married (which wasn't for years). It wasn't what he said, more the way he said it (he previously told me that DH and I weren't suited and he was surprised that we lasted more than a month - that was 14 years ago).

When my own grandparents passed he wanted to know the ins and outs of their wills. In addition, DH's brother "bought a share" of the family home and DH didn't find out about this until 3 years later.

I don't know why I'm posting. I suppose I'm asking aibu to be a bit pissed off, especially as I dread another onslaught by FIL to find out about our finances. Also DH and I have no secrets whatsoever, aibu to feel a bit hurt/confused as to why this appears to have been covered up?

Reading back, I think I probably am bu. I dislike PILs immensely - that is probably clouding my judgement.

Wibu to ask DH what it's all about? I know for a fact that, if he has covered anything up, it would be because he knows they upset me.

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

How legally binding is this document that FIL drew up? I'd bet it wouldnt stand up in court anyway. And if it's between DH and FIL (is that right?) then I don't think you need to worry - DH needs to sort it with his dad.

[Viviennemary]

If there is all this bad feeling it really is a lot better not to accept financial help from relatives. There is so often strings attached. If your FIL's name isn't on the title deeds wouldn't the money just be considered a loan if it's to be paid back. Iwould absolutely insist on seeing the agreement. I am assuming the house is in you and your DP's name. If they become difficult see a solicitor.

[Inertia]

I'm astounded that the bank were willing to give you a mortgage on a property that FIL holds a financial interest in without insisting on clearing the agreement through their own legal processes.

[Justfuckitupagain]

The agreement that FIL drew up was, quite literally, typed by FIL, printed and DH signed it. No legal input at all. It was essentially "gifted" to DH (obviously with strings attached) and, as far as the bank were concerned, we had a 10% deposit. FIL was not involved with getting the mortgage at all.

The stupid thing is that, if we had put in a 5% deposit! the payments would only have been about another £20 per month - easily manageable. But DH felt that if he refused then FIL would be offended. In reality I think he just wanted some sort of hold over us

[PetulaGordino]

did you not have to prove where the deposit money came from? part of our deposit was "gifted" money and we had to have legal documentation to that effect for the mortgage company. this basically states that the givers of the money make no claim on the property and we are not expected to pay it back (so it's not a loan in addition to the mortgage)

is he on the deeds?

[Justfuckitupagain]

Re proving where the deposit came from - not that I can remember

He is not on the deeds

[PetulaGordino]

did you sign the original deed of trust drawn up by the solicitor between you and h?

[CheshireDing]

Op it's either a gift, and therefore he has no financial interest or it's not and the lender should have been informed.

What do you intend to do when your current fixed rate runs out ? (Assuming your are fixed)

[Justfuckitupagain]

Yep - it became null and void when we got married as we just figured that, if things went wrong at that point, we would each be covered legally anyway

It contained everything on what would happen to everything (inc White goods/DIY equipment etc given to us by my mum and dad)

I don't mean to sound grabby, but they didn't give us a wedding present on account of The agreement between him and DH - completely understandable IMHO but I don't want to leave anything out in case anyone feels it's important. I think I've become a bit brainwashed as to what is normal and what isn't

[Realitybitesyourbum]

I don't know why you just don't give him the money back if you have it sitting in the bank. Why would you want to give somebody power over you like that? Surely you can give it back whenever you like? You don't have to wait for him to demand it?

[Justfuckitupagain]

Sorry, last post to Petula

We've already renewed our fixed rate about 15 months ago and, well, nothing - we just renewed iyswim

Sorry, I realise that my stupidity must be very frustrating for you all

[Justfuckitupagain]

It's trying to convince DH that's the problem.

I can't just decide unilaterally to transfer the money to them. Firstly he original agreement was between him and DH, and secondly DH argues that, if the roles were reversed, my parents would be very, very upset if we returned anything to hem. The scales have not yet fully fallen from his eyes

[PetulaGordino]

i would give the money back now if you have it and it stops him dicking you about and holding it over you

and i don't think you need to pay interest either

[ChelsyHandy]

I'm thinking it would be unenforcable against you possibly anyway, due to a lack of independent legal advice and the deliberate secrecy by FIL - he chose not to record it it or have it independently witnessed.

[diddl]

The point is though that even if it where a gift,there are strings that msake it not worthwhile.

[PetulaGordino]

re the wedding present that's irrelevant to the house-buying. either the money was a gift or it's a loan as cheshireding says

if the former then he has no claim to the house and any proceeds (and in the eyes of the law i would say he has no claim on asking for it back anyway, but that's not the point and i'm not legally trained)

if it was a loan, then surely that is separate to any gifts for weddings/birthday, as he's going to get the money back (with interest if he gets his own way!). unless he financially crippled himself by giving the money to his son in which case he's really daft

[Justfuckitupagain]

Completely agree - if it were my decision it would be back with them and, quite frankly, I would go either no or very limited contact.

But it's not my decision to make. All I can do is try to persuade DH and try to support him as best I can when he really sees the light

[PetulaGordino]

it sounds like it's a loan when he wants it to be and a gift when he wants it to be

your poor dh won't win here

[Justfuckitupagain]

He was pretty much the sole beneficiary of his parents estate.

He owns 2 houses, DBIL has "bought" a part share of house number 1 off him and pays all the bills/council tax etc. FIL has no outgoings for this property.

House number 2 has been fully refurbished using money from the estate. He apparently also has more shares etc than he knows what to do with.

He constantly boasts about how much he has in the bank.

Assistance with the deposit came to less than half he rent DH paid when he moved home after uni. On arriving home, he wasn't allowed to use the washing machine or dishwasher, he bought his own food, when he didn't eat there he would be at mine for dinner (mum and dad see him as their own).

Sorry, I'm rambling

Point being, if he ain't rolling in it he's doing a bloody good job of lying about it!

[Justfuckitupagain]

Exactly Petula

In a way I'm dreading DH realising the truth

[CheshireDing]

Your new lender doesn't know then and he is not registered as being a second charge on the property so it was a gift. Therefore that's the end of it, a gift is not meant to be repaid.

[Justfuckitupagain]

Thank you Cheshire

[Viviennemary]

It sounds like your FIL enjoys lording it over you and pretends he has some sort of hold on you which he doesn't. When the subject is brought up just say not this again. He hasn't a leg to stand on if the deed was drawn up as a gift. Your finances have absolutely nothing to do with your FIL. He sounds a complete pinta.

[Booooooooooooooooooooo]

What happens if DH agrees with you, you try and give FIL his money back and FIL says no and is quite happy to have share of house forever more?

I would get some legal advice. And hopefully that advice will show original agreement to be null and void - I'm sure the mortgage company would not be happy with someone else having a claim over the house.

[Justfuckitupagain]

I don't know.

I might have to focus on one battle at a time