To wonder why on earth Glenn Hoddle has got a job as a pundit for the World Cup when he has never apologised for his disablist comments?

[ziggiestardust]

So time is a healer then?

Effectively, ITV are endorsing his behaviour. For anyone who doesn't know, I quote:

"You and I have been physically given two hands and two legs and half-decent brains,"

"Some people have not been born like that for a reason. The karma is working from another lifetime.

"I have nothing to hide about that. It is not only people with disabilities. What you sow, you have to reap."

So disabled people are disabled, because they were very naughty boys and girls in their previous lives. He has never apologised, and has only said he was sorry that people felt offended, and that was never his intention.

What the actual fuck?! Of all the knowledgable football personalities out there, they chose him? Wow. If only all workplaces were as understanding, by that reasoning, you could intimidate someone and it would be all totally fine after a little bit of time because 'it's only your religious beliefs...'

AIBU to think ITV could have chosen a better television role model than this?

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

And also quite deluded.which would make me question his ability to make any decisions at all.

[FiveFingerDeathPunch]

hazeyjane so agree and with you Fanjo

[Toadinthehole]

This is ancient history now. There are better things to get offended about.

[TimeForAnotherNameChange]

No Toad, there aren't. There are plenty of equally important things, but to dismiss disabilism so crudely reflects very badly on you personally indeed.

[dawndonnaagain]

KeepingUp
You may not find it offensive, but there are many, many people here who do. It was an offensive, ill thought out and downright daft comment. No matter your beliefs on the matter, if you are in the public eye, you keep them to yourself.

[dawndonnaagain]

Toad
Disablism is still a major problem, try not to be quite so dismissive to those that suffer these prejudices, daily. Thank you.

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

I remember it.

And the mishmashed tangle of words that formed his "apology".

Obviously, rich man pays lawyer (and oooh look, a disabled rights lawyer too, so extra kudos, he's not daft that Mr Hoddle, despite the shite he believes) to basically make out he didn't mean to say what he said.

So far so legal eagle.

And apologising for offending because he didn't mean to offend (ie because he thinks that what he believes is perfectly reasonable) is not the same as apologising and saying his beliefs are offensive and wrong. Which they are.

"This is ancient history now. There are better things to get offended about"

And if every wrong, or injustice was dealt with by saying that, then we really would have become a society so lacking in any kind of humanism or morals that it's time to nuke the lot of us.

[Greyhound]

I used to work with an awful man who believed in karma. When his friend's girlfriend was murdered by her boyfriend, this guy said it was because she had sinned in a previous life.

[shockinglybadteacher]

YABU because it's football. As PP have pointed out, football redefines corruption to a whole new level.

Ask how many migrant workers died or will die in the run-up to World Cup 2022. Or how Qatar won the bid in the first place.

I read a short story once called "Foundation". A man had been a soldier in the first Gulf war and as is well known, dead and dying Iraqi soldiers were bulldozed into trenches. Everywhere he went afterwards he heard the dead cry out from the earth. I imagine that Qatar's dead migrant workers would cry out from the stadiums too.

Hoddle's a fanny and ignorant, but neither quality is rare in football. There are worse things than that.

[wannaBe]

His comments were disgusting and he lost his job as a result...

But he is there as a football pundit. His views on reincarnation (expressed several years ago) have no bearing on his knowledge of football. He is not representing the country - he is merely expressing an opinion about football..
The comments which he expressed were offensive but his being a football pundit is not.

I find it far more offensive that the Paralympics were sponsored by Atos. Now that should never have happened....

[Andrewofgg]

How many of us think the same now on every subject as we did 15 years ago? Have none of us moved on? Cannot Mr Hoddle move on too?

[Birdsgottafly]

""then you have to accept being called a wanker. and not expect to hold a high paying job in the public eye""

Well you can, because not getting the job, based on personal/religious/spiritual/cultural beliefs, is discrimination and against the Equality Act.

Behind all of our celebrations, Christmas/Easter, all of the dressing up and burning insense etc is a very dangerous set of beliefs (these people supported the killing of disabled children, test ran the death camps, believed in Eugenics and supported the Nazi's).

We could take any religion and discriminate against them, the easiest way to control the population is via employment, which links into housing.

We should have open communication about beliefs and unless connected to that employment, or illegal, then one shouldn't influence the other.

[AnyFucker]

Do people really wake up one day then and stop thinking that disabled people only have themselves to blame ? I doubt it.

[shockinglybadteacher]

Has Hoddle actually moved on and said that he has?

Also, not getting a job because of beliefs isn't automatically discrimination. I failed a security questionnaire because of my political beliefs. Not because I am some mad bomb-thrower, but because the post was very restricted. shrug I held a political party membership at the time and had been politically active. It was fair enough.

If you take on views which are out of the norm, there are going to be some roles where that will cause you difficulty. If you espouse radical Islam, you'd be fine working as a postman but you would struggle to get a job in the Senior Civil Service.

[Deverethemuzzler]

I don't care if lots of people believe in karma.
Karma and its other variations are why families are shunned by their communities, why children are left to die in sewers and why husbands abandon their wives and those wives get beaten by their in-laws.

In the 21st century.

WTF is he on about anyway? Does he see himself as some sort of guru?

More likely he read an article in Playboy by accident and now he thinks he understands all that well interesting like spiritual stuff like what they do in India.

Other things to get offended about?

ODFOD.

[Birdsgottafly]

""Do people really wake up one day then and stop thinking that disabled people only have themselves to blame ? I doubt it.""

This aspect of Buddhism etc is taken out of context.

It is this issue that makes me not fully embrace Buddhism, it has very fixed views, as all beliefs do, but it preaches alongside that all acts must be compassionate, so not dangerous, in the same way other religions are.

No different than the way the Muslim faith is defended on here, yet there is an allowance for the taking of sex slaves, murder etc.

[Birdsgottafly]

""I don't care if lots of people believe in karma.
Karma and its other variations are why families are shunned by their communities, why children are left to die in sewers and why husbands abandon their wives and those wives get beaten by their in-laws.""

No it isn't, although the belief is present, the religion also does not allow those acts, if you are speaking about Buddhism.

""I held a political party membership at the time and had been politically active""

Very different scenario than just being asked your personal beliefs and giving them. The j

[sparechange]

His comments have no place in civilised society, but they are his religious beliefs
Some disgusting homophobic, sexist shit gets spouted in the name of religion. Are you proposing to ban all Catholics, evangelical christians and muslims from TV?

[Birdsgottafly]

The issue is that we look to these people for more than we should, he should only be taken note of when he is spouting about football.

We shouldn't be consulting Slebs and most Sports people about general life and spiritual matters.

[dawndonnaagain]

Only, sparechange if they espouse them whilst holding another role, in the public eye.

[wannaBe]

well, given just over 30% of the population admits to being prejudiced in some way. Nigel Farage and UKIP are making significant gains in the voting poles, as are the BNP. Anyone who votes for UKIP or the BNP is a racist, a bigot and quite possibly a disablist. Should all these people be prevented from working as well?
If GH were applying for a job for a disability organisation I would think it inappropriate to employ him based on the fact his views have been expressed so publically. But he isn't.

[Deverethemuzzler]

Birds. I disagree.
From experience.

Religion and belief systems become problematic when they are interpreted to justify the prejudice of the individual.

Thus we have families shunned for the evil they did in a former (or this) life which has resulted in the birth of a disabled child.

Karma or whatever. Hoddle isn't a Buddist he is playing with spirituality.

[Birdsgottafly]

Makes you wonder why we allow the Dali Lama on TV and make a big deal of his costs, because he holds these beliefs, as well.

Has everyone who had Baptisms and Comunions coming up, now canceled since the dumped bodies of illigetimate children has gone more public?

Why not? It really doesn't get any worse than the murder of under 2's, just because a marriage certificate isn't held.

[DrankSangriaInThePark]

I went to a Communion on Sunday.

What I didn't do was stand on stage with a mike and say I believed that illegitimate babies (strangely, like my own dd who did her Communion last year) deserved to be murdered.

See the difference?

[prh47bridge]

The view he expressed was offensive. It may be driven by religious beliefs. It may have been poorly expressed and not what he really meant. But it was offensive.

He apologised. We may think the apology was inadequate but to say he never apologised is wrong. He has also continued to fundraise for the disabled. I don't know how much he has raised for the disabled over the years but I understand it is a pretty substantial sum. I am not saying this makes his comments any less offensive.

However much I or anyone else disagrees with his views on disabled people or any other subject he is entitled to those views. We don't have the Thought Police yet (although it sometimes appears as if we do).

I do not agree with people being hounded out of their jobs for private views. I think it is completely wrong that Brendan Eich was forced to stand down as CEO of Mozilla because in 2008 he made a $1000 donation to the Proposition 8 campaign against legalising gay marriage in California - a campaign which achieved 52% support in the subsequent vote. His views on gay marriage may have changed - many people have changed their views on this subject in the last 6 years. Even if his views have not changed they were not relevant to his job at Mozilla.

Hoddle is not being given a platform to express his views on disabled people. He is there to provide expert comment and analysis on football matches, a job for which he is amply qualified. As long as he keeps his views to himself (assuming his views have not changed in the last 15 years) I have no problem with that.

I do not want to live in a society where people are not allowed to work or find the range of opportunities seriously curtailed because of their personal beliefs.