gather round, It's a neighbourly fence dispute!!!

[adsy]

Right, a few weeks ago the fence separating us fell down.
The next couple of weekends we have spent tidying up the shrubs etc. that had grown up round the fence and removing rotten wood etc.
last week neighbour came round to tell us to replace fence ASAP as he is dogsitting and needs it secure.
I told him we needed to check the deeds to check ownership and I'd get back to him. Cue lots of shouting along the lines of it's definitely your fence, I've never repaired it in 20 years, if the dog savages your DC it will be on your head etc.
So.. got the deeds from land registry and it says all fences are party fences and to be repaired and maintained as such.
Been to tell him it's fifty fifty and he says he's never heard such nonsense and why should he pay half.
We showed him the deeds but he still wasn't having any of it.
Left it with him saying as it's not on his deeds he's paying nothing and he's going to his solicitors.
We gave him a copy of our deed plans and the relevant section that says all fences and walls are party.
So, AIBU to expect him to pay half?

[headlesslambrini]

Anyone else wondering what type of dog he is doggy-sitting for?

[EBearhug]

Is it a wooden fence? My neighbour is planning to replace the missing wooden fence panels between our two gardens, but he can't actually get any panels for another couple of weeks (because half the country has been replacing blown away and flooded fencing I think.) So whatever you decide to do, be aware there could be some delay like that.

(I don't really care - the fence cuts out most of my sunlight, and we were both out in the garden listening to R4 today. Might feel differently if we didn't get on okay.)

[TeenageMutantNinjaTurtle]

Please buy his deeds OP! It's only £4 or something from the Land Registry... I'd love to know what they say

[adsy]

Might well be worth the £11 investment. I'll get them ordered. Mine came back to me in 2 days

[HornyHandsofToil]

I'd call his bluff and remind him that when you either of you sell, you will both need to declare a neighbour dispute.

Ask him to also repeat into your video phone his previous declaration that he intends to allow a dog he doesn't own into his unsecured garden for x time fully aware he may be unable to control the animal and the animal may harm your children.

Because he's saying in advance he can't control the animal and he believes the animal can be dangerous to children.

"Why" would be answered with printout of this and suggestion he googles "intent"

[DocDaneeka]

Put an electric fence up, whilst the dog is there you can hire them by the week from agricultural supplies places.
That'll keep the bugger out. Might discourage the dog too :)

[diddl]

I can't help but think that this "party fence" is a bit of a red herring(?) in a way.

Surely you can both put up your own fence on your own property if you wish?

There are already shrubs that OP is happy with.

I can't see the point of getting his deeds.

If it wasn't for the dog, he'd probably be OK with just the shrubs.

[wowfudge]

Are you in Scotland or outside the UK OP? It's £6 for the title register and title plan from the Land Registry website; instant download.

[linkery]

I would be wary of taking legal advice off mumsnet.
Some posters dont know as much as it can sound like they do.
Get some proper legal advice.

[ifyourehoppyandyouknowit]

Even if the OP is responsible for the fenxi, there's not hitstating what kind of of fence it needs to be, right? So the shrubs are fine either way?

Responsibility for keeping the dog secure is with the owner.

[Quoteunquote]

I always recommend that anyone who has a building, or lives in one, spends some time reading the garden law forum

Boundary law is the oldest of all disputes, and the beginning of a lot of wars.

Save yourself a lot of stress and expense, and ask on the garden law forum, where many an expert will save you a lot of time and hassle.

I myself have an interesting boundary (made up of water, and woodland), which each time I get a new neighbour on the other side they start to question the arrangements which have been in place over the last hundred years, I always directed them to the forum, after they have read up on the issues, agree that it's best left as it is. the only losers being specialists lawyers who would take all of our money.

Always the best thing to do is avoid getting into a dispute, but if you do be really careful how you proceed.

[TSSDNCOP]

If presented with this kind of gold plated knobber for a neighbour I'd say bugger the cost and erect the tallest, sturdiest fence with a razor wire top just to keep him out.

[Foodylicious]

Can I make a silly suggestion? Put up a fence that covers half the gap and tell him you are having no further discussions about it when he asks.

[TheReluctantCountess]

www.gardenlaw.co.uk/walls.html this website is good. It clearly states that if the dog does any damage on your land, he is liable.

[vitaminz]

What will you do if the dog comes into your garden and poos or attempts to eat your children?

[adsy]

guess the dog warden would be getting a call.
He's now put an old door across the gap. I assume as a temporary measure till we get our wallets out.
I've had a good look at the garden law site and the conclusion seems to be:
It's a party wall so he pays half.
If he refuses to pay then we are under no obligation to replace / repair it.
The dog is here and appears to be a lab. ( not exactly Cujo but maybe he's going to train it to attack!)

[MrsChickPea]

Not read most of thread, so apologies if missed something. But I think you are legally obliged to keep pets in your own garden. So that would be neighbours responsibility. Though normally fences aren't shared...

[Norland]

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

'Penalties

You can be fined up to £5,000 and/or sent to prison for up to 6 months if your dog is dangerously out of control. You may not be allowed to own a dog in the future and your dog may be destroyed.

If you let your dog injure someone you can be sent to prison for up to 5 years and/or fined. If you deliberately use your dog to injure someone you could be charged with ‘malicious wounding’.

If you allow your dog to kill someone you can be sent to prison for up to 14 years and/or get an unlimited fine......'

The law is quite clear on where responibility for dog-control lies. You could print this out for him; if he's as unreasonable as he sounds, he might not thank you for it.

You could try in your next conversation with him:

• you'll be muzzling the dog then?
  
• my solicitor is eagerly awaiting the letter from your solicitors!
  
• (as mentioned above) we're going for the electric fence option, so please ensure your dog/you don't wee our way
  
• luckily, we've reclaimed some old, graffiti-covered breeze blocks and we'll be puitting them up, graffiti facing your way

[DanaBarrett]

We have party boundaries on all sides. A few years ago the council who owned the property to the back, wrote and asked if they could replace the fence at their cost on the proviso that the fence posts were on my side. I was more than happy to agree.

During the storms last year my fence with the neighbour to my right blew over, I happily shared the cost with him. I believe it's quite common on ex-council estates, it's on our deeds (we aren't allowed to sell alcohol or erect an advertising hoarding either). We all know the score round here and just get on with it!

[JuliaScurr]

tried and failed to use 'garden law' forum - our old but sound fence was originally damaged in the storms, then repaired. neighbour's dog (12 stone mastiff) and neighbour further damaged the original storm damage and between them have virtually destroyed it and half our garden. Dog comes into our garden frequently, our daughter is scared. Any advice?

[Walkacrossthesand]

I thought that generally the fence belonged to the property which 'looked at' the posts, ie the 'smooth side' of the fence faces the non-owners? This ties in with the stem of the 'T' on the deeds being on the fence-owners side? I mention this because floundering's post on p2 implies the opposite?

[adsy]

walkacross that is the presumption if there is no mention in the deeds, and in fact the posts were on his side, but the deeds explicitly say all fences and walls are party and joint responsibility.
The fence post / which side of the garden thing is apparently a presumption and holds no basis in law.
if there is no mention in the deeds, all fences in the eyes of the law are party ( I've been doing a lot of googling the last couple of days!!)

[FreeWee]

The fence posts are on our side of the fence but our deeds and next door's say it's his fence. When it blew down weeks after moving in we knocked on his door to talk to him about it. He said it was his responsibility (before we even checked) and he'd been meaning to do something about it for a while. We offered to get someone in and when we told him the price he paid for all of it. Happy neighbours Conversely in our previous house the fence blew down. We'd also not long moved in so had our deeds to hand. We realised it was our neighbour's responsibility so left it for a few months. He did nothing then when we realised he was a council tenant we phoned the council. They denied responsibility so I sent them my deeds with the explanation of which fence it was. They said yes it's your responsibility because those marked a certain way are your responsibility. I phoned to point out that was exactly how I'd read the deeds too which meant the deeds marked in another way were their responsibility, and it turned out they didn't realise that was the fence I was referring to (the one I marked???) Anyway that got fixed too but much more of a palaver. Fences are the devil's work!!

Shame your neighbour is an arse. If it's no skin off your nose I'd get his deeds for the sake of £11 and show them to him when you get them. If he still disputes and you're not fussed just leave it. It's his problem as you say. And the dog sitting won't be forever.

[JuliaScurr]

any views on storm damage/mastiff dog (see above)
thanks