To Consider Homeopathic Teething Gel Appalling?

[UncleT]

It's being advertised on the telly at the moment. It 'contains' 12c dilutions of herbs. Look up 12c and you'll rapidly find out that this means none of the substance remains in a sample. Other ingredients are water, ethanol, a sweetener and gelling and lubricant agents. There is nothing that will help with teething pain.

[CalamityKate1]

Disgusting.

[MaidOfStars]

As for that homeopathic AIDS organisation, as far as I can tell they're not exploiting people as it's a non-profit, and they're encouraging people to seek or continue with conventional ARVs and running theirs alongside it

From the founder and my comments :

In many ways homoeopathy is the perfect medicine for persons suffering from AIDS lie 1, and particularly in Africa why particularly?. AIDS means Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. Homoeopathy works by stimulating and enhancing the immune system lie 2 and therefore it is precisely in this disease that homoeopathy can be most effective lie 3.

Homoeopathy is a system of medicine with an outstanding record of cures lie 4, both in individual lie 6 and epidemic diseases lie 7. Homoeopathy was extremely effective in the great flu pandemic of 1918 lie 8, and the cholera epidemics of the 19th century lie 9. Homeopathy has proved effective in yellow fever lie 10, whooping cough lie 11, polio lie 12, typhus lie 13, and malaria lie 14. Today, homoeopaths all over the world are having very promising results with AIDS patients lie 15, substantially improving their well being and restoring health lie 16.

On clinical trials for homeopathy:
So I am happy to go for a simple trial initially, with one arm of AIDS patients with homoeopathy and no ARV.

He's proposing "high tech" trials to give patients homeopathy instead of antiretrovirals. But why wouldn't they, given the nonsense he spouts, and the fact that half of Europe happily glug these things down and proclaim them wonder drugs?

[CalamityKate1]

How can something based on a lie be harmless?

A group of unscrupulous dodgy builders convince an old person to pay them to fix his roof. They don't fix it but he feels better because he THINKS it's fixed. Is that ok?

The same group of builders occasionally do fix the odd roof. Shall we let them carry on then? Let's say that by some miracle the roof would have fixed itself eventually anyway. Does that make it right?

How the hell can anything based on an utter lie be ok?

[bruffin]

I've seen the pictures Bernies and there is bone between the milk teeth and the adult teeth. My dd had to have an impacted tooth removed last year. It was very low in the jaw and growing into the back molar, they had to remove bone to get to it from above.

[sashh]

As for that homeopathic AIDS organisation, as far as I can tell they're not exploiting people as it's a non-profit

Seriously?

They appear to be giving out food - a good thing alongside the homeopathy but claiming the homeopathy is what is working.

From their truly scarey website

Q: We have heard that there have been attacks on your project, what is this about?

There is a minority of individuals that oppose homoeopathy, and they have launched attacks on private blogs, newspapers and elsewhere. They are a small but noisy group.

Q: Who are these people?

This is a group of individuals, scientists and pseudo scientists who oppose any form of complementary therapy, or even religion, and are bio-engineering.

So that's me and quite a few other posters, we are all against any religion and are bio-engineering.

[alAswad]

MaidOfStars and Kisses I don't believe that homeopathy is harmless, I think it's exploitative when done for profit (at least if the practitioners are aware that it doesn't work), cruel to those to whom it gives false hope and dangerous if people are so convinced by it that they refuse conventional medicine in its favour. But I do believe that IF people are informed about the choices they're making there's not much that can be done about it. It would be completely unethical to force conventional medicine on people (except where they aren't capable of informed consent), and it can hardly be made illegal to sell distilled water and sugar pills if they come with the disclaimer that they're not scientifically proven to work. In an ideal world yes, people would know enough about science to understand that homeopathy is bollocks, but we have to work with what we've got, and that includes people making the wrong choices for themselves. All we can do is try and educate people who believe in it as to why it doesn't work (as indeed I would if someone I knew was considering it), but it's always going to be a slow and frustrating process.

As for that homeopathic AIDS organisation, as far as I can tell they're not exploiting people as it's a non-profit, and they're encouraging people to seek or continue with conventional ARVs and running theirs alongside it. Presumably the patients hear the viewpoint that it's not scientific when receiving conventional treatment, so it's not like they're being brainwashed into anything. It's hardly ideal (I would much rather see the money go into actual AIDS research) but there are far greater evils when it comes to healthcare in Africa. Again, if they were actively trying to stop people seeking conventional treatment (or even not encouraging it and acting as though homeopathy alone was enough) that would be very different - I'm sure there are organisations like that too, sadly.

[BerniesBurneze]

Bruffin, it is true. Honestly? I can't link as I'm on my phone but Google skull+baby teeth. Just because they milk teeth hadn't fallen out it didnt mean they hadn't left a gap in the jaw for the adult teeth to push through.

[KissesBreakingWave]

whatstheharm.net/ - for all your 'but homeopathy/crystal healing/whateverthewoo doesn't hurt anyone.' needs.

This crap has a body count.

Oh, and the power of prayer? Actual study results: slight negative effect. If there is a god and it is answering prayers, the evidence seems to suggest it is weak and malevolent.

[MaidOfStars]

I'd have an issue with practitioners deliberately targeting vulnerable people, for example terminally ill patients, or with someone having the choice made for them e.g. parents refusing conventional medicine for their children, but for anything else it's people's own choice what to spend their money on. I imagine (perhaps naively) that most people are aware that science says it doesn't work, and for those who choose to try it anyway they have a belief in something other than science - which, as long as it's a fully informed decision, is their choice, even if it makes no sense to me whatsoever

Check out Homeopathy AIDS Africa

Mission statement:
To relieve the suffering of HIV/AIDS patients using classical homoeopathy
To identify the homoeopathic remedies most successful in treating HIV/AIDS
To spread this knowledge throughout Tanzania and Africa
To produce formal, ethical research
To prove to the world what homoeopathy can do

This is what the "no harm done" brigade are feeding. If homeopathy is "accepted" by the richest countries in the world, if it defended as a valid health choice, if it touted as succeeding where conventional medicine has failed, what fucking chance do these people stand?

[bruffin]

"The baby teeth force through the pathway for the adult teeth"

I dont think thats true. My dd and some other children i know adult teeth came through behind there baby teeth, so for a little while they actually had two rows of teeth.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

It's not just Homoeopathy, Reiki, Faith Healing or Crystal Healing. We are teaching people that magic works. After all that effort over 1000s of years to accumulate real knowledge we are abandoning it and replacing it with wishful thinking.

As you grow up your education consists of what you were taught in school and what you pick up from other people/media.

Are you sick? Don't try finding out what is wrong, Just wear this crystal or let me wave my hands about and mumble a bit. Do you want a new career? For just £49.99 you can get someone to read your palm, head, elbows or whatever and that will be more effective than actually learning a new skill or finding out what you are good at.

When faced with a new situation people apply what they know already. For too many people that means they will look for some magical means to achieve the end. They won't worry about the facts because "Science doesn't know everything" and "We all have our own truths".

They know this because they heard it online. Probably right here on MN.

[sashh]

Sash - credit adults with the good sense to know when conventional treatment is necessary and urgent.

How can I when they think that homeopathy is sometimes appropriate?

[alAswad]

As for homeopathy itself personally I think it's a load of balls, but if people want to use it then there's not much anyone can do about that. I'd have an issue with practitioners deliberately targeting vulnerable people, for example terminally ill patients, or with someone having the choice made for them e.g. parents refusing conventional medicine for their children, but for anything else it's people's own choice what to spend their money on. I imagine (perhaps naively) that most people are aware that science says it doesn't work, and for those who choose to try it anyway they have a belief in something other than science - which, as long as it's a fully informed decision, is their choice, even if it makes no sense to me whatsoever. That won't stop me trying to persuade them that it's all rubbish, especially if they're using it to treat something serious - doesn't mean I don't respect their right to choose, just that I think the choice they're making is the wrong one, iyswim.

Deliberately spreading misleading information about the dangers of conventional medicine is another matter, though.

[BerniesBurneze]

My god, I knew people believed in homeopathy but I had no idea people doubted teething. I am genuinely shocked.

My little boy rarely feels pain. When he is teething he gets a temperature. This never bothers him so he is still happy, but I can umderstand other babies would find a temperature uncomfortable (ie painful).

After that he gets bright red cheeks like a gnome, again, still a happy boy but he will become fussy and searching for something to bite on ocassion. I can understand how other babies find this more painful. At times he's woken 20 times a night because he can't settle when he is teething.

This is always surrounded by biting and a tooth erupting. Apart from once when I was convinced but no tooth came through.

Google images a picture of a child's skulk regarding baby teeth. It is absolutely fascinating.

The baby teeth force through the pathway for the adult teeth. Which would explain the lack of pain when you lose your baby teeth.

[alAswad]

Polkadots yes that was why I couldn't be bothered to read it, I was thinking 'fuck if I'm going through all these tables of digits and trying to understand what 'electronic copying' means at this time of night'

I do love Raman spectroscopy though I'll have a look at the real one in a bit need all the help I can get to procrastinate from my dissertation

[piscivorous]

So what exactly is the problem here? In most cases people make an informed decision to try homeopathy for something either mild and self-limiting or, as a complement to traditional treatment, for symptoms of chronic conditions that are not responding to mainstream treatment alone. Nobody should think they have a right to stop anybody else choosing to do that even if they, personally, think it's rubbish

[bruffin]

They turn to it repeatedly because they have more money than sense and there are too many charletons waiting to take that money.

[Minifingers]

No - homeopathy makes people who use it feel better. Like prayer. Like faith healing. It has a placebo effect.

This is why people turn to it REPEATEDLY.

[bruffin]

Not sure what happened there
Minifinger, by your own admission we are talking about self limiting illnesses that would have resolved by themselves. Homeopathy is doing nothing at all and not "working"

I have seen people post that they have Homeopathy works because they had something like warts, taken a homeopathy cure and 6 weeks later the wart went (I am not exagerating). This has convinced them homeopathy works

[bruffin]

Minifinger

[Minifingers]

Cardi - homeopathy works for many people who use it, in the way all placebos do.

And please - can I repeat that most people use homeopathy to treat minor ailments, mostly not serious infections that need antibiotics.

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

alAswad, this is it. Admittedly, I didn't realise it was published in a Homeopathy Journal.

[cardibach]

But Minifingers homeopathy is ineffectual too - it has been proved not to work. What bit of that is hard to understand. It isn't that it works but we don't know why or that it hasn't been proved to work it is that it has been proved not to. Actually, it is still pretty unpleasant when used for minor ailments. A friend of DDs had bouts of tonsillitis regularly when she was at primary school. Her dad insisted on 'treating' it with homeopathy and as a result she was miserably ill for two weeks at a time and missed loads of school when suitable antibiotics would have helped her in 24 hours. Her life was not in jeopardy, but her quality of life certainly was.

[Minifingers]

Love the way people choose rare and bizarre examples - like cretins using homeopathy to prevent malaria - as rationale for the total dismissal of homeopathy, which is overwhelmingly turned to by people suffering minor ailments which conventional treatments are either not available for or are ineffectual.

[Minifingers]

Sash - credit adults with the good sense to know when conventional treatment is necessary and urgent.

It's rare for this not to be the case.