To insist on a referral?

[WaveorCheer]

When DS2 was nine months old, I noticed that the enamel on his top front four teeth was patchy. Over the next couple of weeks I realised it was crumbling off so I took him to the dentist sharpish. She confirmed it was coming off but didn't seem particularly worried. She asked me to go back in six months.

Three months and lots of visible loss of enamel later (chips a couple of millimetres big flaking off, loss of about two millimetres off the bottom of the two front teeth), I took him back and asked to be referred to the hospital. She declined and said he only needed to go there if the teeth disintegrated to the point that they had to come out, but that this was the worst case scenario. Losing the teeth isn't just cosmetic, they also act as place markers for the adult teeth and without them he could end up with poor spacing. She stared him on a course of fluoride painting every three months.

Two months later and I'm wondering whether to go back again. Those four teeth are basically stubs. He is highly averse to having his teeth brushed. But the worst thing of all is his sleep, which is appalling. Last night he woke up maybe 20 times. On a good night he wakes every 1-2 hours. When he wakes he often rubs at his face. Now obviously I can't prove he's in pain (dentist seemed to think it shouldn't hurt) but it seems a reasonable assumption to think he is. I'm a physical wreck.

Should/can I insist on a referral? The rest of his teeth are perfectly fine btw, the only explanation I've heard so far is that I might have been ill at the point in pregnancy when the enamel formed.

[Garcia10]

This happened to my daughter's baby molars. The dentist thought it was due to me having gestational diabetes. The good news is that her adult teeth are absolutely fine. I'd definitely try and find another dentist and see if you can get more support and advice.

[NearTheWindymill]

Oh, and OP, mine are 19 and 16 now - we all survived.

[NearTheWindymill]

It didn't sound like nonsense to me. It sounds like a mum dealing with a baby who has bad ears and they are hell for baby and mum alike. Get yourself comfy with lots of pillows in the corner of the sofa and keep him upright tonight. After tonight the pain should start to recede.

I spent from December through to 20th March once with dd sleeping upright in a rocking chair. She was grommetted on 20th March and turned into a different child. It's hell but it's not your fault - you've found the cause and now you just need to get through tonight. Next time you will know and get it sorted out quickly.

hugs

[WaveorCheep]

I give up!

[WaveorCheep]

Hmm, you can tell I'm tired by the nonsense I writing. Half of that didn't make sense, and the other half was mostly typos.

[WaveorCheep]

Thankfully DH is now off work till Tuesday so I should get a lie in. DS has had two lots of Antibiotics and some calpol before bed but he's obviously still fairly uncomfortable because he has woken twice and is pawing at his face. So much about his sleep is starting to make sense now!

We cosleep and he sleeps on his side. So many times he has stirred and stirred, unable to drop back properly to sleep unless I change his position so he's lying on the other side, or pick him up and hold him - presumably the pressure. Breastfeeding him while he's asleep has often seemed to cause him pain and wake him up. Apparently that's common with ears.

Now I think about it, he's had a couple of previous episodes of similar behaviour. What a fool I am!

[NoBloodyMore]

I hope you're DS I'd better soon, all 3 of my DC have had no enamel on baby teeth due to hyperemesis when pregnant.

Eldest DS is now 10, his second teeth are great but he'll need a brace, even though we didn't have the bad baby teeth removed.

DD aged 5 has just a row of black stumps at the top but they won't remove unless she's in pain, they just kept disintegrating until there's just a tiny bit in the gum left.

DS who is 2 is already showing signs of decay and has had 2 lots of fluoride paste on, it def seems to be slowing down any damage, his are no where near as severe as DD at the same age so do carry on with the paste if you can.

[NearTheWindymill]

It's crap and you weren't to know. Makes me smile a bit that so many who are medically trained missed it >>>>preens

[WaveorCheep]

Oh really? He looked in the side I didn't think was too bad first and pronounced it cherry red and bulging. And then the side I thought was bothering him and said it was worse.

I feel terribly guilty now that I left it five days, but I really thought it was his teeth. I've had no experience with ear infections before and his sleep has been poor for several months. I'm just hoping desperately that the ear infection is recent and not something that's been bothering him for a while.

Huge to Windy for spotting the real issue, and also to the professionals on this thread who we're able to reassure me that he's getting the right dental treatment.

[Gobstopperlemons]

Sorry missed pages 2&3. ??

[Gobstopperlemons]

My 15 month old can still wake every 60-90minutes and has good teeth.

From what I've read, enamel loss in baby teeth is due to illness whilst pregnant and won't affect adult teeth.

I have no enamel on one adult tooth. Apparently this is just 'one if those things'.

[NearTheWindymill]

Oh the poor lad, I really hoped it wouldn't be this. You can give calpol and ibuprofen to help with the pain and inflammation. The antibiotics really seemed to kick in with mine after the 4th dose. I hope you've review appointment next week. Hopefully they won't perforate - you will know if they are on their way; I'm afraid he'll howl and all you will be able to do is hold him upright against you until they go and then there will be relief. It's messy so make sure you have lots of clean towels for his pillows.

Good luck - at least it's diagnosed now. Oh and rather than being Jobe's comforter (sorry!) I was told numerous times that my dc's ears were "bulging" and they calmed down without perforating.

[WaveorCheep]

Windy gets first prize!

Severe ear infections both sides, Dr thinks the ear drums may well burst. Came home with antibiotics, an antifungal for his bum and some doublebase because there's a patch of rash on his face that's looking distinctly eczema-y.

Poor little bugger, no wonder he can't sleep.

[WaveorCheep]

Don't worry NoArmani, I get it now! Thanks for your help.

[NoArmaniNoPunani]

I guess I was expecting the dentist to act in a similar way - as a tooth GP, and when my child has such an obvious and worrying (to me!) medical issue, I was expecting a referral sharpish. My HV also thought I should get one - but obviously she's no dental expert either...

Dentists aren't tooth GPs!

[shewhowines]

Can't you see what the doctor has to say about it?

[NearTheWindymill]

Ah poor wee lad - hope he's on the mend and sleeping better.

[WaveorCheep]

Hi Windy, thanks for asking :).


DS2 came out in an odd little rash on his cheeks/chin and bum just as I was writing the thread - little sandpapery bumps, almost like nappy rash on his face. He seemed fine in himself but I wondered if it was disturbing him in the night.

It's clearing up now, and last night was a little better (waking every 1-2 hrs) so I'm hopeful the two are related.

I was reassured by the dentists/related professionals on this thread who confirmed that the dentist's course of treatment is the right one for enamel loss and that he's not displaying the behaviour of a child suffering more than discomfort atm.

I think I was just thrown by the difference between any other suspected health issue in a baby, and a tooth issue.
Where HV/GP has been worried about about him before they referred straight to a specialist - so when he was found to have asymmetric hip creases at the six week check, or when the HV thought he might have a squint. We were packed off to the hospital even though I was entirely confident that there was nothing wrong (I was right).

I guess I was expecting the dentist to act in a similar way - as a tooth GP, and when my child has such an obvious and worrying (to me!) medical issue, I was expecting a referral sharpish. My HV also thought I should get one - but obviously she's no dental expert either...

[NearTheWindymill]

How's it going Wave?

[WaveorCheer]

Well I've lost count of the number of times I've dropped off the to sleep and been woken up this evening.

It feels like torture. I have to be up at 5.30 for work. I've been trying to get to sleep for three hours now.

[WaveorCheer]

Will do he has been scratching round the back of his head (at the base of his neck) a lot.

[NearTheWindymill]

Yes, I'd get that checked by the GP if I were you. If nothing then you know it's one less thing to worry about.

[WaveorCheer]

Thanks windy I hadn't considered his ears. Do you mean an ear infection?

[Oinkypig]

Sorry phone died! He is unlikely to be in pain from those teeth, but, if he is and it was my son I would have them extracted. There is no way to reliably cap baby front teeth so he won't be at risk of pain or infection quite soon after.

[NearTheWindymill]

Can I please say something as a non expert.

When I was a little girl with milk teeth, mine all came through as blackened stumps and it was blamed on too rich formula - sweets, etc.. I wasn't the prettiest child. Hem, years later I found out I had a half sister and her teeth were exactly the same as mine. We both have perfect second teeth - the sort of teeth a lot of people pay thousands of pounds for.

My DC - I have two. No sugars muchly, no crap, good dental hygience taught although DS is a lazy sod and DD is meticulous. DS has never had a filling and gets praise for his dental hygiene at the dentist. DD has needed a few fillings and gets told off.

Some of it is genetic - some of it is luck. The one thing I do know is that dd's first or second molars (I'm sorry I can't remember which ones) but four at the back in the identical places, came through with patchy enamel and when brown and nasty and had to be extracted. I had pleurisy at about 20 weeks and was admitted to hospital for iv antibiotics and there is a line apparently to the stage her teeth were at.

DD's teeth cosmetically, are white and better shaped than DS's but not as strong. DS's are super strong but a bit yellow and were a bit gappy. £3k sorted it out - nothing bad enough for NHS treatment.

Just saying that it isn't always how one looks after teeth and how the first teeth come through doesn't necessarily affect the second.

Dentists, please do correct me because I'm only talking from experience and generalising.

One final thing OP - if you lad is waking that much and pawing at his face, I think it would be advisable to have his ears checked out.

Good luck. I'm sure it will all be fine.