To leave academia for a more routine job

[googlenut]

I tried posting elsewhere but got no traffic. I have a chance to stay within the university on the same pay scale but in more of a support role. I'm currently on temporary grant reliant contracts. I am thinking of accepting due to the crazy expected work hours in academia and the constant competitive atmosphere that exists. Has anyone moved into research support and loved it/hated it?

[Kemmo]

I think it totally depends on the PI that you work for.

I know some people who love this sort of role because they work for a PI who values their skills/experience and gives them the flexibility in terms of hours and the opportunities to drive some aspects of the research.

I know others in this role who are treated like graduate RAs and given no independence.

[isitwineoclockyet]

I have done research, admin and am currently a lecturer. I have to say I am much happier as a lecturer than I was in either of the other roles, & was least happy as an administrator. I hated doing 9 - 5, hated the work itself, & missed the feeling of learning something new every day.

Having said all of that, I don't see what you have to lose giving it a go? I never regretted trying out other things, & if anything it makes me more certain that what I'm doing now is right for me.

A lot depends on who you're working with (I had nightmare colleagues when an administrator, & have lovely ones now), but as someone has already said, if it's not for you, keep your eyes open for suitable research or teaching roles & be prepared to expain how having worked in admin makes you better equipped to do other things too.

[Purplepoodle]

I worked in support role in research but for one specific research group. I chose my one start time (anything before 10 am was ok) then I work my days hours. If I needed to take a shorter day or a longer lunch or hospital appointments then that was ok. I was working on specific projects so could plan work on a weekly basis. Helped that I was willing to do the odd couple of hours on a Saturday or Sunday if something needed babysitting.


No stress, no thinking about work BUT it is pretty dead end career wise.

[RevoltingPeasant]

SPB - just to give you an idea about hours - I have consciously chilled out and said 'no' more this year, but last year and before, it was not uncommon for me to have no days off between Sept and Xmas, and then again from early Jan to late March. As in, 3-4 months of 7-day weeks, mostly on the order of 9-10 hours a day plus taking work home most weekends. I would normally also work Boxing Day, NYE, NY, most bank holidays etc.

This is not uncommon. My salary would be mid-30ks which I am NOT complaining about in any way but I do think most jobs requiring those kinds of hours are more like corporate lawyer type jobs.

Also a lot of stress and uncertainty goes with it as OP makes clear. I personally know two otherwise quite healthy people who have had major strokes by the age of 36, one so bad she will never work again.

I may be biassed but I do think it's a seriously long hours culture. so will stop slacking off on MN

[RevoltingPeasant]

taking work home most weeknights , not weekends

[Sicaq]

I left academia for the media, partly due to the total lack of security in academia (not that the media is much better, it turns out ...). But I sympathise. I know a few former colleagues who now write grant applications, or translate patents.

I do think the UK is losing a lot of potential here: people train for years to become excellent researchers, and then find themselves unable to use those skills because of things like, y'know, needing to know that you can feed the kids each month.

[StealthPolarBear]

Thanks Revolting. Yes that is a lot of hours, glad it has improved :)

[Sicaq]

Meant to say, writing grant applications for other people, not for themselves.

[Kundry]

It isn't just the UK, it's academia globally. DH is an academic, currently in a European university as you are expected to go where the best job is your career not worry about incidental crap like where your wife lives This is common in academia - most people in his department have family at least in other cities, he isn't the only one in the 'wrong' country.

I have a genuinely very busy job (NHS consultant) - he works way more hours than me for less than half the money. It's still a good salary but not when you consider how highly qualified he is. Even if we lived together I can't see that his job is compatible with parenting.

It's short term contracts, high pressure management, lots of toxic management styles. People have been off sick with breakdowns in every department he's ever worked in.

But if I suggest doing anything else he'll say 'But I'll be bored' because he genuinely loves his research and some of his 'work' is like 'leisure' for him as he just loves doing it.

If I was in your position I'd take the job but I know my DH wouldn't.

[126sticks]

Suppose it was all inevitable really, with 50% going to uni.

[Sicaq]

The people I'm talking about, 126sticks, are not part of that 50% - they are the < 5 % who have PhDs. Research funding has been cut to the bone.

[traininthedistance]

Nothing to do with the 50% target (and working conditions in academia are better in quite a few countries that massively exceed the 50% cohort in tertiary education target).

[bibliomania]

Why do I like uni admin? Don't want to out myself by being too specific about the nature of my job, but I genuinely find it interesting.

It probably helps that I'm fine with 9-5 and there is still a bit of flexibility within that.

Like most jobs, a huge amount depends on the boss you have and the team you're in.

[126sticks]

Yes but the 50% go on to the 5% which becomes 10%

[googlenut]

Thanks biblio
To the poster who said there are lots of toxic management styles I completely agree (have worked in private industry previously) someone told me recently that someone in HR at uni said that if they were to deal with all the difficult characters in the university there would be noone left in management!

[traininthedistance]

The 50% target was never reached - and in any case it was 50% "to have had some experience of" tertiary-level education, which included short workplace-based training courses, higher-level NVQs and so on. Total tertiary participation remains below 40% in the UK IIRC. The target was original proposed by the Major government because the UK was falling substantially behind international competitors on tertiary education participation, including Canada and the US.

Academic pay and conditions are primarily the result of management changes in the sector over the last 15-20 years, including the dominance of the RAE/REF culture.

[126sticks]

Well, 40% goes on to 4% which leads to 8%!

[babybat]

I work in university admin, and work closely with some of the research support people. A lot depends on the university you're working for - a more research intensive institution is going to have a greater need for support staff, and better career progression. My current role has a great degree of flexibility and autonomy, and plenty of scope to expand. Research support is not without its stresses, particularly when big grant applications/publication deadlines/REF submissions are due, but only you can say whether you'd find that interesting.

If the role on offer is permanent, that's not to be sniffed at. HE is a challenging sector at the moment, and academic careers are hard to find.

You might also want to consider whether you've got the skill set to do some part time/freelance work in addition to your main role - perhaps in grant writing, technical writing or journals editing? That might help if you find the move isn't giving you the creative/intellectual stimulation you need.

[googlenut]

Baby that's really good advice about doing some freelance work or perhaps letting my current department know I'd be interested in small pieces of work even if I move. Hadn't thought of that.

[TarkaTheOtter]

I took a research support role but was expected to still publish my own research. It was the worst of both worlds in terms of workload. I've now left academia all together (currently SAHM) but would consider an admin role. Even then, I'd rather be student support side than research. I'd also be interested in lecturing if there wasn't an expectation to publish. Although I think a lot of depts give non-research lecturers all the shit courses/admin load, ime anyway.

[googlenut]

I would be helping to set up and run clinical trials in this role. There would be no expectation to publish.

[traininthedistance]

126 don't know how much more to say it, but no, current academic working conditions aren't a result of the cohort participation rate, but to changes in management and research funding streams.

Eg. When successive governments made research funding conditional on outputs, soon in order to get hired you needed to demonstrate you had a certain number of RAE/REF outputs. The coming of email and changes in the school teaching system meant students expected emails returned overnight, much more hand-holding, etc. Admin and report-writing increased. More of the university started to be funded by soft money grant applications, and the hurdles for applying for those got more and more extensive. New criteria for applying and accounting for research money from HEFCE were introduced that involved more additonal work outside of core business (eg. "Impact"). At the same time, relocated to the department for Business and Industry, universities were encouraged to adopt private sector cost-cutting measures, including a focus on profit, funneling money upwards to management salaries whilst holding down pay elsewhere, and the adoption of more and more fixed-term contracts, and not replacing lectureships on retirement (or sometimes replacing them with short term "teaching fellowships"). There's a lovely table doing the rounds at the moment of VCs' salaries - the top 10 VCs' salaries are now all over 356k, whilst real pay has dropped by 13% for the rank and file-ers in the last 5 years.

In my department, 15 years ago most postgrad students were home students, many of us with some kind of small research funding stipend, and most of my cohort went into HE teaching in some way. Today, research funding for HE has been so cut to the bone that a research stipend for a UK student is as rare as hens' teeth, and though the numbers of research students haven't really changed over those 15 years, now the majority of our postgrads are overseas students, either paying full fees or on studentships from their own countries (to which they return afterwards). So no, of that 40% actually fewer of the UK cohort are funnelling into working in HE, not more.

[Sicaq]

I have not had enough coffee, 126! Who are the 8 % you refer to?

[ginpig]

About three years ago I went from post-doc to a research coordinator role as I'd had enough of academia- the insecurity, the never being able to shut off from work etc. and I couldn't see how maintaining that level of exertion was compatible with having kids.

For the most I part I do enjoy the job, but I have found the lack of autonomy difficult and couple with the fact that I feel I'm viewed as administrative rather than research quite difficult. The role was always supposed to have a continuing research element (I'm employed at a post-doc level), but with the workload this has been difficult to achieve (part of that is also because the boss' wife and I do not get on).

Mostly the PIs are glad I am around (the majority of them are academic clinicians so often torn between two worlds themselves) and tell me that they wouldn't be able to get their research off the ground without me, but I have consciously put myself in that position.

I would say that there is little in terms of career progression- that is definitely something I will have to push more myself and have been working to identify new areas I can get involved in and build my skill set to make that possible.

Unfortunately my position is 'funded' and not permanent, so that aspect hasn't changed. Also, the regulations surrounding clinical trials can be a bit of a nightmare- just a quagmire of red tape, so it does come with it's own drawbacks. So it is different from working as an academic, but as it's still in the academia arena it's still pretty frustrating!

[googlenut]

Ginpig that is really useful. Does the red tape stuff get you down. I imagine the role doesn't allow much creativity which I do get a lot of in research.
On the other hand there is a lot to be said for predictability while trying to juggle the needs of a family.