To think etiquette should be taught at school?

[Pedantichag]

What has happened to basic manners? Hmmmmm? Anyone have any idea where they've gone? Most people I've encountered recently seem to have lost theirs.

[whatshallwedo]

Goblinchild no the assistant was busy serving the children who were already in front of us.

They could've been a TA or parent but it doesn't take studying at uni to be able to promote good manners. The children were told to go in front of us except for the little boy who chose to wait behind us.

[Pedantichag]

'Believe it baby'.

I can recount some horrific stories actually and yes the children are running rampant hence one school being stripped of it's 'excellent' rating.
Primary school children hitting and punching each other and the staff ignoring it. Yes, true story, scouts honour. Oh and this is a primary school, the incidents at a local secondary school though really do take it to another level altogether.

[wonderingsoul]

in which case the school should be closed down really..

i cant see how they dont teach at least some basic manners.. otherwise the school would be over run with children doing what they like and hurting eachother?

granted some schools do it better.. and i have to admit.. the school my db's are at are very hot on kind, polite, behaviour, and do alot to encourage and praise it.. along with being very strict on what they wont accept. .. prehasp i am being blinded my own expearance.. but i cant belive there is one school that doesnt teach/model good behaviour in some way.

[Pedantichag]

Wonderingsoul

This is not the case in some schools I'm afraid.

As for asking, 'what more do I want?'...ohhhh the list is endless!

[wonderingsoul]

schools allready do dont they? just not in a lesson way..

they incourage good behaviour.. notice when some one is kind and remark on it.. they talk about sharing.. they dont let children call out.. they teach to be kind to each other... they pull children up on their behaviour.. at school they even do sorry letters.. where if one child has been mean they lose x amount of play time and have to do a letter to the other child..

im not sure what else you want?

the fault lays with the parents who dont reinforce it at home.

[Goblinchild]

Clubs used to be about good will, but they also became a matter of pressure from the SLT to ensure that in a good/outstanding school, everyone who wasn't an NQT ran at least one club, or ran jointly.
You got a serious frowning and pointed comments if you didn't round my neck of the woods.

[Goblinchild]

Could have been a TA, Whatshallwedo.
Or a parent helper?
Did the shop assistant not say 'I'll just serve this lady as she was first?'
Although granted, on a trip you are so busy frantically counting and checking that your focus narrows.

[lainiekazan]

Unfortunately some people who kids look up to display appalling manners. Spitting is disgusting yet there on our screens are footballers gobbing and shooting snot out of their nostrils. If I were the ref I'd send a player off for this!

[SweepTheHalls]

After school clubs are about good will , that is rapidly being eroded by Gove.

[whatshallwedo]

What happens when the teachers themselves have no manners?

I was in a gift shop yesterday at the same time as a group of school children on a trip.

We queued up at the till behind some of the children who were waiting to pay. There were 4 children still looking about and when they had chosen their items one little boy queued behind us whilst the teacher told the 3 girls to stand in front of us!

I have to say that on this occasion I didn't say anything directly as it would have come out badly due to the day I was having (exdp, dd's birthday, spending the day together anyone?)

I also realise this wasn't the children's fault but how can they be expected to understand how to queue and wait their turn in future if it isn't being demonstrated by their teacher?

[Pedantichag]

Etiquette is a bit broader than spoons and forks.

I must admit though teaching correct posture can't be bad for one can it

[missymarmite]

OP, when you say 'etiquette', what do you mean, exactly? Should teachers be responsible for teaching the difference between a dessert fork and a main meal fork? Should they teach deportment and proper pronunciation? Or are you referring to something else?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I have never been taught good manners. They were modeled in the home and school and therefore are 2nd nature now.

Etiquette is slightly different. My grandfather and one of my teachers in PS taught me how to address bishops, en titled etc. While I can excuse lapses in etiquette, I judge the parents of those (under 25) who have poor manners. I am sometimes appalled at the lack of basic manners on MN.

[MsAspreyDiamonds]

My cousin is an ill mannered, nasty piece of work because her mother is exactly the same. No amount of etiquette training will redeem those two. As the saying goes, the apple doesnt fall too far from the tree.

[morethanpotatoprints]

I have to say this though maybe controversial but:

Most of the children I come across are well mannered, its the adults who aren't.
My dd goes to lots of schools for various activities where there are many other parents, teachers outside the schools, and teachers from the schools in question.

It is very busy and lots of equipment being carried mainly by the children. We hold doors open for everybody, as do other parents etc.
Usually the children say thank you. A quarter of the parents do, and fewer of the teachers do. In fact the teachers are the worst.

I think the teachers do this because their minds are occupied on other things and maybe they are used to being opened for them.
My daughter comments on this quite often, she has started keeping tally . She is only 10 and these are all local high schools.

[Pedantichag]

Tsk tsk Miracle.

Now! Moving on...(and beyond manners slightly).

Nose picking, spitting. That sort of thing.

Personally nose picking to me is vile however if whomever is carrying out this act in public and doesn't wipe the contents in their nose on anything other than a tissue or in fact eats it as I've seen, is it less offensive than say cutting finger nails on public transport transport or spitting in the street (my personal abhorrence), where bits of bodily debris is is waiting for some unsuspecting passerby to come into contact with it.

[QueenofLouisiana]

Yes, model manners to my class. I always try to remember my pleases and thank yous and I hold doors for others.

However, my after school club today was a writing booster for yr6. Last term I ran an extension maths group for children choosing to take the Primary Maths Challenge.

Since I want to see my own child occasionally I'm not planning on doing another club.

[mymiraclebubba]

Sorry on phone and it failed to load most of the thread!!

[QuickQuickSloe]

Manners are taught informally at my school. Good manners are rewarded and failure to use manners is picked up on and the child given a chance to remedy the situation. It's part of maintaining a learning environment that is good and happy for all the children.

[Pedantichag]

Nearthewindymill

I quite like your rather balanced argument.

As for mil 'oooooh, I say ooooh she's a bit naughty isn't she!!'

[Pedantichag]

Keep up my miraclebubba

[NearTheWindymill]

I don't think they should teach etiquette but I do think teachers should be responsible for setting a good example in accordance with high standards. Personally I think that includes saying please and thank you, not yelling like a fishwife, disciplining children for bad language rather than making allowances because of background and the same goes for cheek, insubordination, disruption, etc..

I find this a really difficult one because MIL, a former deputy head, counts food and thinks it's a bit of a laugh to lick dinner plates. She also calls children thickos and says there's no point bothering with some children because at best they will only ever work on building sites, etc.

[mymiraclebubba]

Yabu parents should teach their brats manners

[PocketFluff]

At my school we do teach table manners, although more the sitting at the table nicely, being polite, sharing and passing food, making polite conversation end than the cake fork end!

We do a session every half term and try to fit the food in with our topic. We also try, where possible, to use a variety of foods that not all the children will be familiar with. They really enjoy it!