to think a ski company offering to pay any fines imposed by schools is wrong

[bottlenecker]

The times today have an article about a "A ski company is encouraging parents to take their children on holiday during term time by offering to pay any fines imposed by schools or local councils."

AIBU to think this is wrong on every level? It promotes parents to break the law. It discriminates against those without children having to pay a higher price than those with children for the same dates. I could go on....

[AlpacaLypse]

Sorry, I don't understand your maths either.

I agree with whoever it was upthread who compared this offer to a restaurant paying the parking fines for customers who park on double yellows while eating there.

[slithytove]

No discrimination here.

It's saying everyone who has a fine from school will get it refunded. Fab.

The encouragement to break the rules is another matter.

Btw, is this really a law to not take kids on holiday in term time?

[Piechomper]

I thought it was a civil matter, not criminal.

Anyway, our local curry house offers a free taxi on Saturdays when you spend over £50. Are they discriminating against non drinkers who will drive to their restaurant?

I really can't see where you're coming from, OP.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Disturbing to see so many thinking this is a good idea

Despite the usual attemps at justification it's quite clear that to some parents, the money is the priority - as seen when say "even with the fine we're still saving" So if they're saving all that money, why is anyone pleased to see the fines may be paid as well?

I've asked repeatedly what impression folk think this gives their children and what kind of an example it sets for their future working lives. Nobody's ever addressed that point yet, but I live in hope ...

[lionheart]

YANBU OP.

But in their defence, I suppose you could say that the offer comes with the risk of a broken arm or leg and that this makes it an educational experience.

[bottlenecker]

"Anyway, our local curry house offers a free taxi on Saturdays when you spend over £50. Are they discriminating against non drinkers who will drive to their restaurant? "

I see your point although the drinkers are likely to spend a lot more

[hoobypickypicky]

What an inspired idea! If only I'd thought of it.

Let's face it, the fines will come out of the additional profit made by the company as a result of this clever ad campaign, the parents who are in favour will take advantage of the offer, those who are outraged will be still be outraged, they'll just be being outraged while holidaying outwith term time, the government gets the bird about its decision to fine termtime holiday-takers and it brings a big smile to the faces of some of us this Friday morning.

Win-win.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Failure to send kids to school is a criminal offence (even if they are too big for you to make them go) yet home-schooling is legal even if you let them watch TV all day.

Who makes these rules and why have we not replaced them with clearer thinkers.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Puzzledandpissedoff there are lots of real parents who are not rich enough to pay the peak prices at all so can't take their kids on holiday.

If missing a day or a week ruins your education completely then we need to reorganise schools since anyone might get the flu and be doomed to a life of poverty and ignorance.

[slithytove]

Clearly home schooling is the way forward. Holidays whenever it suits.

I really don't see why they don't stagger the holidays by county. Then at least there will be some variance. Although this will probably just result in a wider range of peak holiday times. Or each school could dedicate one extra week (different each year) where it was closed for this purpose, and add that week on to the summer holidays. Which are too long anyway.

I know anecdotal evidence is crap. But my parents took me out of school for holidays regularly up until I was 13 (and once after when I couldn't be trusted to stay at home and my schooling was fine.

[hoobypickypicky]

"I've asked repeatedly what impression folk think this gives their children and what kind of an example it sets for their future working lives. Nobody's ever addressed that point yet, but I live in hope .."

Okay, I will. :)

It teaches children that there's a difference between "legal" and "moral". That sometimes it's ok to challenge and not to just accept the treatment and legislation meted out when you genuinely think that the rules are ridiculous and the law is an ass.

You may take a more conservative approach to child-rearing. You will probably disagree with me wholeheartedly and think I'm wrong to raise my children this way. That's fine, that's life. :)

I think this - Never take anything for granted. Never accept anything which goes against your principles. Question it all.

[ivykaty44]

I think the moral argument of whether you should be encouraged by a company to break the law is far more interesting.

My first thought was lets find out who this company is - that was this morning when reading another newspaper for free, but I got distracted by RL. I would love to go skiing and take my dd2 as she loves sport and has never been skiing. This would be a great opportunity, I wonder if the company would pay the fines for her father as well? We are divorced so oh course he wouldn't be coming on holiday with us?

I don't think I could do it, It would make me feel really uncomfortable and I wouldn't relax on holiday with something like that - thats juts me though.

Would I mind other people taking their children out of school - no, no more mind that people home school and can go away when they like.

[hoobypickypicky]

"yet home-schooling is legal even if you let them watch TV all day."

No, that's not true.

Home schooling means, by legal definition, that you must provide "an efficient full time education, suitable to their age, ability and aptitude and to any special educational needs the child may have".

If you don't you are liable to prosecution and could be imprisoned.

[ivykaty44]

I really don't see why they don't stagger the holidays by county.

That already happens in the Midlands and causes problems for teachers that teach in one county and have children at school in another, or for families that have one child in one school and one in another across the boundary - we have 5 counties merging together and it can be a complete and utter nightmare.

Added to which it makes no difference to price - as the holiday companies set the price higher for the complete stagger

[allisgood1]

I think it's bad enough that holiday companies boost the prices in holiday time because it means the difference between getting away and not for many families. And schools being inflexible about one day (which can save a family hundreds) is also out of order. For those unfortunate families who can never get away due to the above, I think it's great for.

[LtEveDallas]

I think it's bad enough that holiday companies boost the prices in holiday time

They don't Allis, they reduce the prices outside school holiday times.

[prh47bridge]

I think if it's a repeated offence, the fines become much steeper and the chances of jail increase

The fines don't become steeper. They are fixed. You are more likely to get fined and the chances of being jailed go up but the fines remain the same.

Tony Blair (who said "we're all middle-class") used to take his family on regular holidays to the Seychelles, when his children should have been at school

It was, of course, Blair who introduced these fines in the first place.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

It teaches children that there's a difference between "legal" and "moral". That sometimes it's ok to challenge and not to just accept the treatment and legislation meted out when you genuinely think that the rules are ridiculous and the law is an ass

I fully agree that sometimes the law's an ass, and challenging it in those circumstances is absolutely right. Surely, though, the way to address this is to campaign to have the law changed, not to pick the bits that suit and ignore the rest

That's really what I meant about the future working lives of such children. Will they expect to ignore the boss if they don't happen to agree with what's required? They won't last long if they do - but then, of course, that will be everyone else's fault too. Believe me, I've employed people who've grown up with this attitude and I know the result only too well

I also agree with Backonlybriefly that some parents won't be able to afford holidays, or at least not the type they'd like. That's a shame of course, but a fancy holiday is a luxury not a necessity; there are things I'd like to have and can't afford, but I don't expect to be able to break the law to get them

[BackOnlyBriefly]

hoobypickypicky I know of no provision for imprisonment for not teaching them adequately. What can happen is that if the local education authority believes you are not doing a reasonable job they can ask to see what you are doing and if still unsatisfied they can issue a "School attendance order" requiring your child to start attending a school (if they have a place free).

However you do not have to follow the national curriculum so what constitutes a suitable education is a matter of opinion. Steiner schools are examples of that.

Actually saying "I'm going to let them watch TV all day" might be a problem, but saying "I'm developing their societal awareness in this primary phase using a visual medium" would I'm sure be fine.

Anyway my point is that they claim that all education must be tightly controlled and organised to work yet they accept home-schooling which probably works better and isn't tightly controlled and organised.

[Taxpanicmum]

ON JEREMY VINE!!!

[rumbelina]

Why on EARTH don't they just make school holiday holidays the same price as term time?

[ivykaty44]

If they have a place free.....

That is going to become a much larger problem in the next four years as school places become like gold dust

Something like 80 new secondary school are needed in England Wales and northern island and even more junior school places. ATM old police stations are been turned into infant schools around the country and this problem will mean for some there children will not get a place at school