to think a ski company offering to pay any fines imposed by schools is wrong

[bottlenecker]

The times today have an article about a "A ski company is encouraging parents to take their children on holiday during term time by offering to pay any fines imposed by schools or local councils."

AIBU to think this is wrong on every level? It promotes parents to break the law. It discriminates against those without children having to pay a higher price than those with children for the same dates. I could go on....

[TruffleOil]

And I agree it's a subsidy of sorts but it's normal profit-maximizing behavior. Any full-price paying customer is subsidizing the senior discount, the student discount, the coupon discount, the early booker discount, etc. "Price discrimination". Like the hard-core fans who buy the early hardback edition are subsidizing the readers who can wait for the softback edition.

[Quinteszilla]

I think it is great!

I disagree with this nanny state principle that parents are punished finanically by insane prices on the times of the year they can go away. Not only do they have more people to pay for, more seats on a flight, bigger hire car/train or bus tickets, more food in restaurant bringing the price up.

This new Fine initiative makes me think Fuck it, now there is NO reason to respect term time, so I might as well "pay a fine" and get a cheaper holiday. Why not?

[wobblyweebles]

Responsible parents are increasingly stripped of their discretion as irresponsible parents continue to burden the system disproportionately

As an outsider who has moved to another school system, I couldn't agree with this more.

My children are in a school system that is rated very highly both in the state and in the whole of the US. It sends over 95% of its students on to university.

We are allowed to take the children out of school for holidays at our's and the teacher's discretion.

Also the teachers are occasionally allowed time off in term time, for important family or other events.

The world hasn't stopped and the students still excel academically (and in other ways).

[TruffleOil]

I took my children out of school for a term-time holiday once, a few years ago. It was shocking how empty it was - I would overwhelmingly prefer this (as we all would) but it was so empty that it was a bit of a drag for the children.

I don't think we've heard the last of this, there's a lot of money at stake. I don't think paying the fees for parents is the answer because that effectively penalizes the non-parents and they'll just negotiate a deal on that basis.

But the bigger picture here is that the UK is ripe for an education revolution. Responsible parents are increasingly stripped of their discretion as irresponsible parents continue to burden the system disproportionately.

[HolidayCriminal]

Actually the best whinge i heard was that kids shouldn't go on hols in term time because they were part of a "team" at school & they were letting the team down.

DS has no friends & is convinced his peers all hate him. He's disruptive, bolshy & aggressive. There are parents & possibly his teacher too who dance a jig when they realised DS wouldn't be there for a few weeks.

"Team" my ass.

[Rommell]

Presumably the increase in sales will more than cover even a whole load of fines.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

or not going away at all that year

Yes, that's the option my family used from the time I was born until I left home.

disruptive for the teachers Oh that won't do at all. I'm also a bit worried that going on holiday on a whim might be disruptive to cleaners, milkman and that guy you buy your newspaper from on the way to work.

I know what you mean really because it means the teacher is going to have to teach the child the things they missed. Except that this is not going to happen anyway. Any more than if you are off sick for 2 weeks.

[Rommell]

^So the fine will be paid by people who are holidaying alongside the family but are without school age children (not fair)^

Er, I'm sorry but I don't get this. Why would people without children be issued with a fine?

The families aren't getting the holiday any cheaper - they are just paying the same price as everyone else and not having to pay a fine. Win-win. Hope more companies start doing this.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I wish people wouldn't talk about not affording summer prices as if they were a special case

You're quite right, and that's exactly the point. HTs already have the authority to grant leave for genuinely exceptional cases - they've always done it - but in our entitlement culture, once one is allowed something many others cry "me too, me too!!!"

It's just a shame that those who want to take children out for purely financial reasons wilfully refuse to acknowledge their own part in the problem that's developed, as more and more children are absent

[BigBirthdayGloom]

My irk on this is because the parents who can afford the fine go ahead and have the holiday when actually they could have afforded a holiday, if not the same one, in school holiday time. The person who's scraping pennies together to get a few days at haven off season won't risk the fine. Unfair. Added to which, our local school knows well that it's not worth the aggro to refuse well heeled parents the holiday so breaks the new rules.

[hunreeeal]

anti formal, state provided education.

If any parents are that ungrateful for the opportunity of a formal state education they can always home-educate and go on holiday when they like.

[hunreeeal]

There are many, many people who find it hard to afford the cost of a holiday in the school summer holidays, or aren't off work at that time. They're all in the same boat and I wish people wouldn't talk about not affording summer prices as if they were a special case. If every family in this situation went on holiday in term-time that would be quite disruptive for the teachers I think, and giving the wrong priorities. There are other options such going at Easter/autumn half term instead, or not going away at all that year (and yes I've done those).

[HolidayCriminal]

I wondered if some types of venues were suffering with the new rules and would come up with some gimmicky marketing angles. Good on 'em.
I noticed a bunch of kids in school uniform come out of local theatre recently; I used to know lots of parents who would take their kids out of school for an afternoon to see cheap matinees of the panto.

So if school does it = education.
Parents do it = criminal act.

[dellybobs]

Wow how miserable of you. Why would you get so bothered that other people can go on holiday, at a time they normally wouldn't get to due to cost, thanks this this company.

I had loads of school term time holidays back when it was legal as we couldnt afford peak season and I got 11 grade A GCSE's and four A-levels so hardly damaging on education.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

A school is just one of the resources you can use in your education.

[Balaboosta]

FFS they aren't getting a "better deal". The company isn't giving them cash-back, or giving them a cheaper holiday, they're paying the fines. I agree it sits strangely but it's not discrimination. Its just super cheeky but quite clever. Anyway, what about OAP cheap rates for haircuts? YABU to get so irate about this.

[hoobypickypicky]

ivykaty, that's a very interesting point. I wonder how that would pan out if it was to be implemented. Actually, no, I dread to think!

hunreeeal, anti-education? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's just anti formal, state provided education.

[hunreeeal]

YANBU. It's opportunist, cynical and anti-education.

[JessieMcJessie]

I could not bring myself to book with this company because of their horrendous misuse of the word "yourselves" in the ad

[TamerB]

Very wise of the ski company - massive publicity for free!

[ivykaty44]

hobbypickpicky the theory will be though, once you have a school place you will not want to be losing it for unauthorised absence……

that will be the crux, fines and whether it is unlawful to take your dc out of school will go by the wayside when parents are told that unauthorised absence will end in the school place being given to another child...

[mummymeister]

I have never given my children the impression that education is not a priority. yet, because of my job, I have to take them out of school during term time if we all want a holiday together both parents and children as a family. my children are definitely not less educated that is utter bull I am afraid. 1 or 2 weeks out a year when there are no other absences makes stuff all difference. the figures and "facts" that this govt bandy around relate to kids who have less than 90% attendance. if time off in term time is so heinous a crime then why have the govt given an exemption to service families and for religious reasons? it isn't a huge problem but absence levels are and Gove needs a quick win to show how fab he is and feather the nest for when he stands as tory leader. so instead of tackling the institutional problem of families who don't send their kids to school, he targets holiday families to get a quick win. this law is wrong. I know it is wrong and I will keep on challenging it whenever, wherever I can. look at the holiday you took last year in school hols and compare it to this years price. holidays in school holidays are going to get and be a lot lot more expensive because of this rule change so pretty soon only the rich will be able to afford holidays abroad. Job done then eh Mr Gove.

[Leonas]

If people choose to take their children out of school during term time, they have to be willing to accept that their children will miss work which might affect their attainment. Parents can be very quick to blame schools/ teachers for their child not achieving the grades they want them too, without looking at the attendance and attitude their child displays. At secondary age, I think taking kids out of school gives the impression that education is not a priority which can impact on their attitude towards school.
I agree that travelling and experiencing different cultures etc is good for children but it isn't essential. Some people can't afford it at any time of year and it doesn't mean their kids are any less educated or well-rounded people because of it

[bottlenecker]

They may have a legal duty but that doesn't help a family when there just isn't a place offered.

noschoolplacestill