To get slightly irritated when people refer to their children being in Year 4 etc?

[Nirvana69]

Just ever so slightly irritated but every thread I've read today related to school aged children I'm told they are in Year 6 or Year 10 or whatever.

This means nothing to me (Scottish) I have no idea what age a Year 6 pupil is.

Aibu to ask that people even stick the age in brackets?
Just a bug bear of mine.

[wobblyweebles]

Errol I am British and American. One of my children started in the UK system then moved. I still have to sit and work out the age when people say Year 7.

[Moln]

Right so a chart would show as follows

England&Wales / Scotland / Rep of Ireland

Primary School

Reception = P1 = Junior Infants
Year 1 = P2 = Senior Infants
Year 2 = P3 = 1st Class
Year 3 = P4 = 2nd Class
Year 4 = P5 = 3rd Class
Year 5 = P6 = 4th Class
Year 6 = P7 = 5th Class
= = 6th Class

Post Primary School

Year 7 = S1 = 1st Year
Year 8 = S2 = 2nd Year
Year 9 = S3 = 3rd Year
Year 10 = S4 = 4th Year
Year 11 = S5 = 5th Year


Don't know American Grades at all, not what happens after year 11 - sorry!!!

[wobblyweebles]

1st graders are generally 6 when they start but the cut off varies by state. For us it is October some time. Also depending on the school district you can push your child ahead or keep them back. So a 1st grader in our school could be aged 5 to 8.

It kind of pisses me off TBH as I have a couple of very young children for their grade, and some of them have children a full two years older than them in the same class.

[Weegiemum]

And o further confuse, parents in Scotland are giving discretion about start dates.

My dd1 and ds have early feb birthdays. I'd have been free to send them to school at age 4y5m but was able (without skipping a year) to have them start in P1 at age 5y6m.

So I have a just-14 year old in S2 (Y8) and a just-12 year old in P7 (Y6). And a 10 year old in P6 (Y5). She seemed so young starting school at only 4y9m!

[DontCallMeBaby]

DD is very nearly 10, mid-year Yr 5 in England, would be on of the eldest in P5 in Scotland, and 4th grade in the US, I think. I've had to translate 5th grade in a book to to her just this evening ...

Thing is, if I describe her as Yr 5 on here, a UK-based, English-centric, website, it's shorthand for 'aged 9 or 10, secondary school next September, maybe looking at 11+ this September, NC level 3 or 4'. If I was on a different site I'd be more precise, and I'd realise they might let understand my terminology, and explain further.

[IneedAwittierNickname]

Errol I always assumed it was reception because it didn't always exist, and changing the whole numbering system would be confusing? I didn't do reception year, it wasn't around then (at least my mum thinks I started school straight into year 1, she can't remember). My neighbours did 'rising 5s though'

[IneedAwittierNickname]

Sinister I don't think that was the 80s way everywhere. My primary had infants (years 1-2) And juniors (years 3-6) but it was all the same school. We played at opposite ends of the playground and the juniors had a toilet block that you had to leave the main building for. There was no middle school.
Secondary school was years 7-11, with GCSEs in year 11.

Then we could opt to stay on for 6th form. Which was years 12 (AS levels) and 13 (A2s)

The fact that 6th form didn't consist of any sixes never seemed to occur to us

[squoosh]

I still refer to First Babies and Second Babies.

[NobodyLivesHere]

It is pretty confusing. I have children born in sept 03, feb 05 and August 07, they are in years 5,4 and 2 respectively...but if we lived in Scotland this wouldn't be the same. I believe they would be in p6, p4 and p2?

[NobodyLivesHere]

Sinister I also went to a school that was I1-2, J1-4 then secondary was 1-5 (changed to the y7-11 half way through I went from being in 2nd year to being in y9, that was confusing!). Then I went to college for 2 years for a levels.

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

My prep school went 1-7, then I started senior school in Third Form (aged 11), went into Lower Four etc.

I manage to translate everything all right! Nobody would know what I was talking about otherwise

[nagynolonger]

It my be a bit confusing the first time you come across a 'system' different to the one you are used to, but it's hardly complicated is it.

The only thing that is a bit strange is that many in England still refer to a 6th form. When they should call it Post16 (years 12 and 13 when they do A levels). You can't have a 6th form if you don't have 1st form, 2nd form etc..

I can understand how the classes are numbered in Scotland. The prep and pre prep is not hard to figure out either. If I wanted to know the US or Australian system I could easily stop and look it up.

[MrsMook]

I find the current system easier for refering to my own schooling as I changed areas with different systems. I started off I the usual 3 year infant school and a month before leaving moved to an area with a 4 year infants. Being ready for juniors, I didn't appreciate. I then should have spent 4 years in the juniors before going to secondary as a second year (y8), but our area standardised to most areas by cutting infants to 3 years and sending two year groups to secondary who recieved y7 and y8 that year. So I ended up doing 4 years in infants,and 3 in juniors. The standardised year system came in when I was in y6 and it's easier to retrofit that system to describe my experience because it wasn't the standard.

I've taught in areas that have different secondary intake systems and it is simpler to understand and compare with the year system.

I mainly smile and nod and ask when it makes a difference to understanding (eg exam years, transitions) when my ILs refer to their system. The level of their exams confuses me more.

[BeaWheesht]

Moln just to confuse things afaik after S5 it's generally 'fifth and then sixth year' both optional.

Op yabu a bit u I think. It only annoys me when people say 'in the uk x y and z happens' when they mean England.

I prefer the Scottish system purely because the youngest age they can start is 4y6m (late February birthday starting August) and also because deferral is much more common place than in England and they don't miss a year if they defer.

[ilovepowerhoop]

NobodyLivesHere

for your sept 03, feb 05 and August 07 birthdays the school years in Scotland would be:

sept 03 birthday would be in P6
Feb 05 birthday could be in either P5(if not deferred) or P4 (if deferred)
Aug 07 birthday would be in P2

(think that is all correct as it gets confusing)

[ilovepowerhoop]

when I was at chool even though it is written as S1, S2, etc we still called it First Year, Second Year, etc. I left after 5th year at the age of 16 and went to Uni just before I turned 17. At that time not many people stayed on for 6th Year.

[ilovepowerhoop]

school!

[justmuddlingalongsomehow]

Just add 5 to the year group and that's how old the kids in the class are likely to be by the end of that academic year (apart from summer birthdays).

[ISeeYouShiverWithAntici]

It doesn't irritate me, I just can't get to grips with it.

In my day (where's my zimmer?...) you'd be at infant school, 1st year, 2nd year... Junior school, 1st year, 2nd year... senior school, 1st form, 2nd form... leave in the fifth form or go into sixth form to do your A levels.

now you just go 1 - whatever.

It's actually simpler, isn't it? Far more straightforward. Start in y1 finish in ywhatever. It's just not how it was done In My Day and for that reason and no good one at all, I don't like it.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Moln - Year 8 in England is the equivalent of S1 in Scotland, and Scottish children do one less year in Senior school - they go up at 12, and do six years (S1-S6) in senior school, whereas English children go up at 11 and do 7 years (Year7-Year13).

Year 7 in England is the equivalent of P7 in Scotland - the 11-12 year olds.

[CountessOfRule]

Pfft. Define "equivalent". My Y1 5yo would be in P1 if in Scotland, but his Y1 6yo friend would be in P2.

I've also lived through Reception/First-Second Year Infants/First-Fourth Year Juniors/First to Fifth Year Seniors and E-block, D-block ... A-block and Y1-13 and L1, U1, L2, U2 ... U5, L6, U6 as well as the Scottish system, and I never fell over.

As far as MN is concerned, sometimes ages matter, sometimes yeargroups matter, and sometimes both.

What the OP should really be annoyed by is OPs with unhelpful or missing information.

[silvermantella]

Mumsnet is a UK website (in fact registered in England & Wales according to the logo at the bottom of the page), and the vast vast majority of the population in the UK use the English and Welsh system of school years, so why should they pander to the tiny Scottish population (8% according to the 2011 census) that don't?

There are also a large number of expats on the site, so should everyone make allowances for them too, i.e. (my Yr6/P7/5th grade/sixieme) etc etc?

I have never been to school in the US but from exposure to friends/tv etc I understand what Freshman, Sophomore, etc is the UK equivalent to, and if it was relevant I would google it.

Plus, it's a fairly straightforward system, starts at reception and then goes up, so if someone says Yr 1 common sense would suggest their child is unlikely to be 8 or 9. It's not exactly rocket science.

[WitchWay]

DS16 goes to a private secondary school & they use the old-fashioned Year system like when I was at school. Consequently he's in 5th year.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Countess - the way I have looked at it is this. All the children finish school at age 18 - in England, the final year of senior school is Year 13, and in Scotland, it is S6. So, counting back, S1, the first year of senior school in Scotland, equates to Year 8 in England. Therefore P7, which is the final year of Primary in Scotland, equates to Year 7, first year senior school, in England.

Where my understanding fails is further down primary school - English primary school is 7 years - Reception to Year 6, and Scottish primary also has 7 years P1 to P7 - but they go up to senior school a year later - and I assume this has to do with how entry age to school is worked out. I never had to get to grips with it, as my youngest ds was 11 when we moved to Scotland.

However, I was trying to be helpful, so saying "Pfft. Define equivalent" to me, seemed rather rude.