To cancel Pancake Tuesday?

[nocontactforevermore]

I posted on here the other day my dd's behaviour. She keeps waking me up really early in morn, bursts into my room at all hours. This morn she came in at 6. I sent her back to her room, so she stood outside it with a whistle instead.

I have tried everything (aside from buying her one of those special clocks) She always claims she just wants to know what time it is, what time I'm getting up. She has a room full of toys, just will not entertain herself. She is pretty much like that when she's awake as well. I was so frustrated this morn that i burst into tears. I've pleaded with her, begged even. I don't sleep well as it is.

I've told her she can't go to her activity and pancakes are off. I am guilty of not following through with what I say. Is this too harsh a punishment?

[nocontactforevermore]

Thanks fairie- I'm gonna print that out!

[Fairenuff]

If you feel yourself getting angry (and you need to learn to recognise the signs) say to her 'I am feeling angry now so I want you to go to your room until I feel calmer'.

If she is having a tantrum, just walk away from her into another room and busy yourself with a job or jog on the spot, or dance madly to some music if you need to.

You can even leave her in the house and go for a brisk walk around the garden.

When you are calm, call her back down to talk.

Try to recognise the things that make you angry and put in some strategies to minimise them. For example, if she ignores you and you have to ask her twenty times to put her shoes on and end up shouting, stop doing it. Deal with the fact that she is ignoring you first the same way as you deal with everything else. Tell her what you want her to do and the consequence if she doesn't do it. Then follow through.

[nocontactforevermore]

Shouting is my worst trait. How do I stop?

[Fairenuff]

I do think for my dd and probably yours it is about us not meeting some need in her

The need that the child has is for the adult to be in charge. When the adult is not consistent, or is unsure or lacking in confidence, the child will often try to take control.

The child would rather be in control themselves, than have no-one in control. Meet that need and you will find that she is happy to let you be in charge OP.

She will fight against it at first because she is not used to it and it is scary giving control to another person. But once she knows that you mean what you say and she can trust your judgement, she will relax a bit and let you take charge more often.

Btw, you do not need to shout to be in charge. Keep your voice low, calm and quiet and it will be much more effective. If she shouts at you, tell her you won't listen to shouting, you will listen when she is ready to talk.

[DarylDixonsDarlin]

Just to add - my 7 and a half yo DS was very frustrated until I showed him HOW to tell the time on a clock (it took a long time tho, over 6 months before it clicked really). He would regularly wake us early because he genuinely didn't understand what 'time' really was, he just didn't get it, no amount of talking about when the clock says 6/7/8 etc. could make it clearer for him, if anything it probably confused him more :(

He still doesn't have a good concept of time now really, during the day, but this is improving. I couldn't find a clock to buy which showed the numbers/minutes to and past the hour as I wanted it, so I wrote it on our kitchen clock with marker pen. DD is 2 and a half years younger than DS but she has learnt alongside him, which is nice.

[Comeatmefam]

Oh OP I've only just seen this thread.

My dd, now 10, sounds so so similar to yours.

She is extremely challenging and attention seeking.

I run the full gamut of anger and guilt on a daily basis.

She used to do this waking me up thing but has thankfully grown out of it to a large degree.

She is very academic and good as gold at school but is utterly selfish, wild and difficult at home (though obviously has her wonderful moments and I adore her).

I do think for my dd and probably yours it is about us not meeting some need in her. Maybe that's the guilt talking. But I'm flinching at some of the harsh posters on here saying she's spoilt and needs putting in her place and even calling her unpleasant.

I am firm and I do shout and I do crack down on her behaviour - but something in my bones tells me she's not 'spoilt' or 'naughty', she needs me in some way I've never been able to quite get.

She reacts very well to proper, quality one-one-one attention so for eg drawing and chatting together but not to attention such as a group activity or anything that is not me focussed on her in an intimate way.

So I try to give her some undivided attention that doesn't involve spoiling her or being OTT - just time with me. Even if that's 10/15 minutes a day, or every other day.

She also responds very well to praise and encouragement. So reward systems work well but often fall by the wayside.

[WilsonFrickett]

One important thing is that the consequence should fit the action. So she wakes you up too early and makes a fuss (agree that's the important bit) so you are of course going to be too tired to do that lovely thing you promised to do at the weekend or that night.

please get hold of a copy of how to talk so children will listen, I promise I'm not on commission and I think it will really help you find techniques which will help you both.

[MomOfTwoGirls2]

Best of luck, OP.

Consistency and perseverance are the name of the game. But not as easy as it sounds, so plenty of determination on your part required too.

But the end result will be worth it!!

[nocontactforevermore]

Thanks everyone for your kind words and ideas. I'll update in a week!

[pictish]

Being a parent is about understanding that children think they know what they want, but the parent knows what they need.

Well absolutely!

[PandaFeet]

I agree with Pictish too.

But I also think that you should realise that while you think pandering to her every need is stopping a tantrum and therefore stopping her upset, that is only one moment in time. The bigger picture is very different.

By pandering to her, you will create a very sad and lonely adult who lacks self esteem and confidence. Someone who will seek validation wherever she can get it, and who will never take responsibility for her own behaviour.

Its very easy, as a parent, to think that the upset during a tantrum is real. But its not. She doesn't feel secure when she wins a row with you. She must feel scared of being in control at 7 years old. Being a parent is about understanding that children think they know what they want, but the parent knows what they need.

[mrsjay]

I wholeheartedly agree with what Pictish said she is playing you OP little children know how to hit the right buttons,

[pictish]

I think if you stick to it like glue for a week or two your problem with her waking you up early will be a thing of the past.

Remember to greet her with enthusiasm and praise her when she does stick to the rule of 7. Positive reinforcement is every bit as important as consequences.

It also sounds to me as though you could be doing with further establishing firmly who is in charge in your relationship in general too. She appears to have no awareness of you having any wishes, needs or desires that ought to be considered...she seems to view you as simply being the facilitator to what she wants. This is true to a large degree...of course it is...but she is old enough now to start respecting you as a person in your own right, and understand that you have likes and dislikes of your own that are not always synonymous with hers, and that YOU will decide what the order of the day will be.

Our job as parents is to slowly encourage our children to become independent of us successfully - it is not to give in to their every whim and be controlled by what they want. Kids shouldn't have that sort of power - they are not mature enough to handle it appropriately.

For her to understand that you do not want to be woken up before 7, and complying with that, is a good age appropriate step towards her comprehending that you are both individuals. Closely bonded with one another yes, but still individuals all the same, and she does not get to trash your agenda to suit herself. You matter too.

Good luck with it OP - for what it's worth, I think you sound like a lovely, intelligent, caring mum, and I'm sure you will be able to sort this out. xx

[PandaFeet]

She doesn't sound anxious with seperation anxiety to me I must say - she sounds like she's playing her mother like a fiddle, and wants to call the shots, then kicks off in outrage when she is stopped in her tracks!
She didn't read the numbers wrong. She's 7 and at school, so she knows what a 7 looks like fine and dandy.

I agree completely.

[nocontactforevermore]

Well she's lost all screen time today and is going to bed half an hour early. I know this might sound counter productive but being in her room instead of downstairs with me tonight is something that she will not like. Tonight however I'll be laying out her consequence in advance. I'm thinking - ban her from her activity tomorrow night.

[pictish]

She doesn't sound anxious with seperation anxiety to me I must say - she sounds like she's playing her mother like a fiddle, and wants to call the shots, then kicks off in outrage when she is stopped in her tracks!
She didn't read the numbers wrong. She's 7 and at school, so she knows what a 7 looks like fine and dandy.

OP - you should decide a consequence and relay it to her before she goes to bed at night, rather than dreaming something up in the morning.

[nocontactforevermore]

We've been separated forever. Things are difficult between us but it's kept away from her. She doesn't know us together. Sometimes I think she's anxious in that she doesn't like to be alone and doesn't like being away from me , but then see that she is picks and chooses, for eg if one of my family offer her out for I've cream or pizza, she's gone like a shot. If I say I'm heading out for the night and they're going to babysit, she kicks off.

[Animation]

Yes don't like the word punishment. Consequence is better.

She does sound anxious. Is she fretting? Are you seperated from her dad? If so has she adjusted to that OK do you think?

[nocontactforevermore]

Sometimes I discuss punishments in advance but someone's I am spur of the moment admittedly. DP went in and spoke to her this morn and he does think she got the numbers mixed up but he is not happy at the way she tried to deal with it ( he is a very very calm person btw). He said she constantly tried to blame me, said I showed her the wrong numbers/didn't show her how to use it properly etc and was doing a lot of very very loud crying, so this is what she is getting punished for, as opposed to 'making a mistake' with the clock

[JammieCodger]

Sounds like a very anxious little girl to me, perhaps with separation issues. I do agree you need to teach her to entertain herself, but perhaps more gently than some posters suggest.

Do you discuss what the sanction will be before she goes to bed, or do you just decide on a punishment in the heat of the (early) morning? Would you be happy if she came into your room when awake as long as she played/read quietly next to the bed and made every effort not to wake you?

[Fairenuff]

Just as a little side thought, OP - I tend to call it a 'consequence' rather than a punishment because it sounds more like she has brought it on herself (which she has).

Also, there are good consequences for good behaviour and bad ones (in her eyes) for unwanted behaviour so she can learn that she is in control of how others treat her and also learn about responsibility.

These lessons will be really useful to her later in life and help her be happy as an adult.

Or, sometimes I call them 'sanctions' if I want to put on a Very Stern Warning expression

Another good idea, is to tell her the consequence in advance. So, tonight, remind her that if she wakes you too early tomorrow she will (explain the consequence) and if she doesn't she will get her first sticker on her chart.

Ask her what she is going to do in the morning. Talk her through it. Wake up, check the clock, too early, go back to sleep, stay in bed, read quietly in bed or do a jigsaw puzzle - that sort of thing. Go through the whole process right up to receiving her sticker.

[Morloth]

She doesn't respect you at all.

Sobbing in the hallway? Utter bullshit, put your earplugs in and go to sleep.

She likes her TV time in the evening? Well you like your sleeping time in the morning. No sleeping time means no TV time.

Fucking hell, my kids would be afraid to behave like this and by the way I don't smack, but I do control all the lovely treats and fun stuff they get.

[nocontactforevermore]

No 6.30 isn't too bad, but it's what she did afterwards....sobbing and indignation in the hallway, it's that that gets to me and that is the reason I will be dishing out a punishment. No way is she getting off with this one.

[Chippednailvarnish]

X post with that

[Chippednailvarnish]

It's not just the waking though is it? If she had gone back to bed quietly, it's a mistake, throwing a tantrum is trying to enforce her own way.