to ask if you would be happy to be operated on by a pregnant surgeon...

[Evie2014]

… who had been up all night with various pregnancy-related issues?

I'm 23 weeks pregnant with twins, and I've been up most of the night with preggo rhinitis, a grumbly tummy and the usual pregnancy insomnia. I'm heading into at least a 12 hour day at work, which will involve supervising people, directing teams and making relatively important decisions. I have quite a responsible job. Calling in sick isn't an option.

I average one day a week at the moment where I go in to work having managed an hour's sleep (despite going to bed early). I can honestly say that never in my professional life have I performed as badly as I do on those days. I've been making stupid rookie mistakes as a result of the awful state that comes from being pregnant, poorly and sleep deprived.

In the past, I've gone to work with ludicrous hangovers where I was probably still drunk from the night before . I definitely still performed better and made fewer mistakes on those ridiculously hungover days than I do during the present sleep-deprived pregnant days. (Pregnancy. The free hangover that never ends.)

I've learned from previous days like this. I'm going to warn two of my colleagues to keep an eye on my work today, in case I make a mistake. I have a lovely supportive team so that's not going to be a problem. However, there's no getting away from the fact that today is going to suck. I had a little cry in the bathroom as I pulled my exhausted body out of the shower just now, and then snuffled and said to myself, "Well, Evie, at least you're not a neurosurgeon. You can't kill anyone today."

But what if I WERE a neurosurgeon? Would you be happy for me to operate on you?

[puntasticusername]

\o/ for the sleep! And the lol

[Evie2014]

I got some sleep!

Thank you to all the lovely people who gave flowers and cups of tea and sympathy and who made me laugh (puntastic I laughed out loud!).

Thinking of changing my user name to IAMNOTASURGEON!

[RabbitFromAHat]

Poor old OP, I just want to give you a hug. Honestly, some of the people on this thread giving you a kicking sound completely batshit very literal. I hope you get more sleep tonight.

[girlwhowearsglasses]

Also - to OP - I can tell you that a twin pregnancy is most VERY different from a singleton one, so you are genuinely getting the extremes of what pregnancy tiredness is like, and what is possible. If you're able to plan ahead with your freelance workload I hope you can also plan to wind it down as you go along? I know what its like to be freelance too.

I can tell you now that while I worked until 36 weeks and drove to term with my single baby, I gave up driving and walking more than 100 yards after about 34 weeks with my twins. It was a very healthy twin pregnancy, and I didn't put on as much weight as I could have done. I hope you can plan for this in your situation, and I hope it works out well for you and yours

[girlwhowearsglasses]

OP when I was 23 weeks pregnant with twins I went into Mamas and Papas (on first sunny summer day - trying to buy something cool), and, I kid you not, there wasn't a skirt that fitted. They all looked at me like 'oh why would you bother to buy anything now - you must be about to give birth'

I cried in the changing rooms.

I hope you're able to go on maternity leave earlier than a normal pregnancy?

[Sharaluck]

What is your job evie?

Sorry to hear you had a hard day

[puntasticusername]

Teacup yes I know. It was a joke

[TeacupDrama]

puntasticusername that has been answered about 20 times she is not a surgeon

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

A pregnant surgeon gave me my c section, just as she was about to start she said 'Oooo I think I should've had breakfast!'

[RevoltingPeasant]

OP I also think it is not as simple as, if you don't feel well, don't go in.

I work in a very different sort of environment to a doctor - I'm a university lecturer - but there is also pressure there in the sense that often, you are the only one who can deliver a particular course because you are the expert. Sooooo, you balance 'Do I cancel a 9am lecture for 200 people with an hour's notice, when it will mean they don't get their exam revision session?' with 'I feel like shit and can't string a sentence together anyhow.'

I have a colleague who once told me she walked into the theatre, turned around and ran for the loo, puked her guts out due to sheer exhaustion, and then went back and delivered an hour-long talk. Another of my colleagues puts her DC to bed at 7/8pm and then works till 1-2am every night, getting up again at 6am. I have no idea how she functions.

And yes, a lot of it is about not wanting to fall behind compared to men, because of course theoretically we're all E&D, but in reality, if you haven't published recently, or haven't pulled in a grant, well.....

[puntasticusername]

Yes, yes, yes. But will you answer the bloody question - are you a surgeon, or aren't you?



Am in haste but - sorry for being judgy, I do get where you're coming from. But I also think you need to look after yourself. I appreciate it's totally shit when you have to choose whether to prioritise your physical or your economic wellbeing.

[maggiemight]

Lots of women work through their pregnancy without problems at all.

Lots of men are pretty crap at their jobs at the best of times.

It used to be the norm that young doctors worked with inadequate sleep, that was the case for decades, until the EU maximum working hours directive (or whatever it's called) not that long ago.

Surgeons no doubt operate the day after they have been told they have cancer, or the day after their family member has been told they have cancer, or the day after their flight from Australia got in, or ..............

[unobtanium]

Evie, sorry you're feeling so run down. You said:

"I asked a question regarding a hypothetical surgeon who had been up all night (...) some (...) got caught up in the unrelated issue of me and my job and why I went to work this morning."

Those two issues are not unrelated at all, you clearly linked them in your OP.

Hope you feel better soon

[BusinessUnusual]

Good point Elephants. I once had a board meeting cancelled because the CEO was recovering from a vasectomy and needed longer than expected. No comments there - and that's another single sex "item" where "being ill" time varies massively.

[motherinferior]

I think the key thing, as you've identified, is not to extrapolate from your experience to other pregnancies. Some women sail merrily through, all radiant and sexually voracious. Which I didn't, personally. On the other hand, some totally lose the plot and can't string a sentence together, whereas I was writing about complex policy stuff at 37 weeks first time round and passed my driving test at 37 weeks second time round.

[ISingSoprano]

I think you make a valid and interesting point. Yes, as others have said there are conditions and illnesses which affect either gender and can affect professional performance. However, pregnancy (and to a certain extent, early motherhood) is entirely female and I can see exactly why your previously held views are being challenged by your current situation.

I wish you well with the remainder of your pregnancy and I hope you have two happy, healthy babies.

[motherinferior]

I'm a freelancer; and felt bloody ill during my first pregnancy (and not fabulous during my second). I do sympathise.

I think I would prefer not to be operated on by someone who wasn't feeling the full ticket, really, in answer to your first question. Though isn't there evidence (this is specific and surgeon-related, I do realise you are not a surgeon) that surgeons often operate better when hyped up on adrenaline? But that may be apocryphal.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I thought you might. To me you sound like an exhausted person who NOT ONLY works full time BUT ALSO is growing people inside her AND WHAT'S MORE is having to battle in small ways every day against a tide of sexist shit. You sound like someone who's so worn out she's starting to believe the bastards. Beginning to think that maybe when people say ignorant, thoughtless and harmful crap about women's capabilities, they are onto something.

Do you think men taking time off to recover from an op for testicular torsion wonder whether that means men aren't really suited to the workplace? Of course not!

We are all people with our own unpredictable and unique mixed bag of physical and mental good times and bad, sexism just often makes it seem otherwise.

Remember that none of your precious clients would exist, or the people who spout sexist crap either, if it wasn't for millions of women volunteering to go through just what you're going through now. Babies aren't actually optional to the human race's continued existence :)

Don't give up, you sound funny and wonderful and bloody tired.

[BusinessUnusual]

And the only reason you are talking about women deserving to be judged is because you are coming from the mindset that male is the norm.

You have a 40 year working life. For, let's say, two lots of six months of that time, some women may have additional illnesses brought on by a pregnancy that, on the whole, both a working man and a working woman have planned and certainly that both a man and a woman have had a hand in.

Be kinder to yourself.

[tethersend]

Good point, moment- one of the reasons why pregnancy related sick leave must be recorded separately in the UK and cannot trigger disciplinary action.

[BusinessUnusual]

Don't forget as a father of a toddler your DH will also be sleep deprived.

[MomentOfTruth]

I actually think you have a point. Some women will struggle in pregnancy, some more than others but myths around pg do not help.

The 'you're pregnant not ill' for example can be create huge issue with someone with serious back pain in pregnancy it insomnia as yourself. I know I had to have 3 weeks off in my first pg fur to tiredness and pain. I also refused to travel at extremely short notice after 30weeks. I had lots of in my very make orientated industry. And that was in the uk!

On the other side some women have no issue at all during their pg and will carry on working until more or less the end. And being pg certainly hadn't stop them from taking decisions!

The issue isn't about of though. It's about accepting that you can be ill, men or women, and how ill you need to be before not going to work. It just happens that when women are pg they are likely to be 'ill' than out of pregnancy.

[Evie2014]

ElephantsandMiasmas you made me smile and brightened my day. Thank you for getting it. You've expressed exactly how I feel. I think I needed someone to say it for me.

And yes I work in a VERY sexist industry in a VERY sexist country.

tethersend you make a very good point.
climbs down from haughty tree

To everyone: genuinely, I'm sorry for ranting and getting grouchy. I know everyone just meant well. Thank you for the input.

[Anonymai]

evie, you asked a question. People answered it. Discussion developed and sidetracked. Like it does on every thread. Stop taking your bad mood and issues with your shitty maternity situation out on me.

Oh, and making a point of highlighting a typo makes you look like even more of a grumpy dick.

[tethersend]

"It’s frightening to me that I’ve gone from Supergirl to Below Average Woman because of basic biology. It makes me wonder if women DO deserve to be judged as failing to measure up to men… (what a horrid thought)."

I repeat: YOU ARE GROWING TWO SMALL HUMAN BEINGS INSIDE YOU.

Can men do that? Can they?

I think you need to change your definition of Supergirl