to say dsd can't have a mobile phone at our house?

[AmigoShamigo]

Dsd is 7. Overnight contact has recently resumed with her and dss who is 6 after their mum stopping contact, moving without informing us, making false allegations etc. Dp said if the dc want to speak to their mum they can, but so far they haven't mentioned her when with us. His ex has now said dsd will be bringing an iPhone with her so she can call/text/whats app etc her mum whenever she likes. Dp has said he'll put the phone away but dsd is often instructed of her 'rights' before contact (I.e. If you tell me off I will be going home as mummy says you must take me if I want to go) so I think she'll want to keep it with her.

Nevermind the fact it has internet access which I'm not happy with dsc or our dc having unsupervised, I think it's very intrusive on our household not to mention disruptive to dps parenting time and undermining of his authority. Aibu to say to dp he needs to tell his ex that the phone isn't welcome at our house rather than make excuses to dsd and ultimately give in and let her retrieve it from wherever he's put it?

[VelmaD]

It is slightly more complicated though. The contact with dad is fairly new - both daughter and mum are used to sole parenting, it will take time to build that trust and respect and develop that parallel parenting. Also, the OP is becoming involved too - so you are jumping from one parent view to three. Three people trying to come to a compromise will always feel like "ganging up" to one party - whether that's the op and her partner against mum, or indeed the mum and partner against OP. Emotions run high in these situations - the overnight contact is new. Demanding things are banned outright or not allowed when they are at the other house likely won't work.

[mrsjay]

can you not turn the internet off on 4g phones then ?

[mrsjay]

if the mum is being difficult that really isn't the little girls fault is it, so if she has her phone the difficult parent MIGHT see that the dad isn't going to bite or be riled but taking the phone from her and telling her that mummy is wrong is just going to rile the difficult mum more and prove a point that the dad isn't able to care for his daughter

[boydonewrongagain]

AmigoShamigo Thu 20-Feb-14 18:22:33
Dsd isn't bothered, Velma, it's just something she'll use as a blackmail tool against dp

No wonder she wants access to a phone to be able to phone her mother you sound pretty harsh you don't think she should be allowed to contact her mum as she's only there for 1 night and that she will know her rights and blackmail her dad. She's 7 not 17.

I'm in my 30's and I'd go mad if my dad told me he didn't want me phoning my mum. How would you feel if your own DC went away with a relative overnight and were told they weren't allowed to contact you even if they desperately wanted to just to say goodnight. I think you should show a bit if compassion

[itsbetterthanabox]

Yabu. I think the child's mother should be able to contact her when she sees fit and the same the other way round when dd is her mothers place.
You can put and adult block on the internet.

[Frogbyanothername]

The whole point of parallel parenting is that there is no need for co-operation or trust.

Each parent parents the way they choose to - there is no involvement or interference by the other.

After a period of blocked contact, the best thing for the DC to know is that she is safe with both her parents. Continual interference by her mother will leave the DC feeling insecure while at dads. She should be allowed to develop a relationship with her Dad (and the OP) independently of her Mum - which is best achieved by Mum taking a back seat.

When DCs start school or childcare , they are not continually in contact with their parents just because the teacher or carer is an unfamiliar adult. They accept that the adults whose care they have been placed in are trustworthy - unless their primary carer behaves in a way that implies otherwise.

The OP has painted a picture of a DC who is coached on how to behave when with her Dad. The fact that she is compliant of her mothers wishes remotely indicates the duress the DC is under to comply.

[mrsjay]

this is the first time the little girl is at her dads in a long time from what i can gather from the info OP has given the little girl doesnt really know her dad that well sadly
I do think further along the line the dad can be more involved and have more of a say, I dont know why the mother has been difficult in the past but baby steps at first
I think this girl needs to know and trust her dad on his own merits and if mum is in her ear about dad for a little while then i really think the op and her partner need to put up with that for a while, the girl could go home and say NASTY STEPMUMMY didnt let me have my phone and then contact is stopped again,

fwiw I think using a little child to get back at an ex is revolting behaviour

[HoratiaDrelincourt]

Whatsapp uses internet to send messages between SIMs - it's relatively data heavy if used "properly", ie with photos and emoticons (MNers would love them - wine, cake, cocktails, animals and even a smiling turd). It is sort of next generation texting. My DC use it on my phone to send DH daft messages when he is away - eg in another room, at the office, or overseas on business.

So there is a reasonable argument for this 7yo girl having a phone with that facility as well as for making calls.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for the OP and her partner to impose house rules on technology use that apply to all the children (and indeed adults) in the house, eg technology curfew at 8pm-8am, not at mealtimes, not in bedrooms, etc.

If the iPhone has Facetime then XW could get D(S)D to use it to spy on OP's house. I don't think that's appropriate.

[Shelby2010]

I expect the mum came on MN and explained that her young children had recently started staying over at their Dad's. They are a little unsure of the situation and feel they can't ask to phone their mum because they know it will be disapproved of. A helpful MNetter suggested providing them with a phone to take with them so they know they can contact her whenever they want. Mum had just upgraded her iPhone so is providing her DD with the old one to take with her. It also has a 'where's my phone' app so Mum can keep track if necessary. See...? All Mumsnet's fault!

[Frogbyanothername]

FaceTime and Skype can be incredibly intrusive - there were posts elsewhere on MN from a mum whose young DD was displaying the OP semi-naked to her friends/ had seen her DDs friends Dad coming out of the shower. Place that in the hands of a child in the home of someone their primary carer dislikes and it will undoubtedly lead to more animosity and hostility as the DC, possibly innocently, shows her primary carer things going on the NRP home; which the RP can criticise, condemn and undermine.

These high tech gadgets are tools that DCs need to be taught how to use appropriately. I wouldn't accept my DDs dads assessment of my DDs competency with high-risk kitchen gadgets and allow her to deepfry her own dinner,for instance, without supervising her first - why is this different?

The idea that the NRP must defer to the wishes of the RP for the good of the child is why so many DCs have fractured relationships with one parent. Thank goodness that courts are starting to acknowledge it and that more NRP are prepared to challenge it legally if necessary.

No one is proposing no contact between DC and mother - I see no reason why the mother should dictate how that happens, though?

[Frogbyanothername]

A helpful MNetter suggested providing them with a phone to take with them so they know they can contact her whenever they want

A lot of MNers would actively object to that solution - for all the reasons discussed on this thread.

How many RP would be happy for their DCs to permit 24/7 phone/facetime contact with the NRP?

[Shelby2010]

Well to be fair it's usually a cheap PAYG that's suggested, but I have seen it on several threads. And it seems to be the Internet that people are against rather than contact itself.

Also, unless the mum is going to take the phone off her DD, this could be an opportunity for the dad to have more contact if he's the one texting her, sending her photos etc?

[Frogbyanothername]

shelby in an ideal world, yes, free contact between a DC and her parents is a good thing.
But the OP has made it clear that the DCs mum is hostile to contact. In that situation, the damage that can be done is immense.

My DHs DDs mum used to text her all the time: "I'm sorry you can't be at home here with me" "not long now, make the best of it" "it's not the same here without you". She told DHs DS on the phone that "even the cat was missing him" - and that was less than 6 hours after he'd left his mum; after a few days, she'd cry on the phone to him because she hated being apart from him. DH did restrict telephone contact for a while, at His DS request, but of course, DS mum didn't believe it.

This constant drip, drip, drip of negativity leads the DCs to feel incredibly conflicted - if they have a good time with Dad then they feel guilty because Mum is missing them, or thinks it should be a chore spending time with him. If the DC fears retribution from Mum if they have a good time with Dad then it's even worse; the intrusion of the phone/texts means that the DC can never forget their mums rules, even for a second.

[Shelby2010]

frog yes, it's a lot more difficult if the adults won't act like adults.

[AmigoShamigo]

Agree with you completely frog.

Dp will let dsd call her mum whenever she likes, he just thinks her having her own phone is disruptive to his limited time with her. The phone isn't allowed to be used for dp to have contact with the children at their mum's house.

[SingMoreWhenYoureWinning]

When she brings it, get her distracted.

Get the phone, go into settings, create a pass number and say nothing.

When your dsd then goes to pick it up and can't use it, do a completely baffled face and suggest she uses the house phone if she wants to call someone.

[ThePinkOcelot]

I would want to contact my dds if they were away over night, one night only or more. YABU.

[boydonewrongagain]

Get the phone, go into settings, create a pass number and say nothing.

When your dsd then goes to pick it up and can't use it, do a completely baffled face and suggest she uses the house phone if she wants to call someone.

I would be furious if someone did that to my daughters phone that she specifically had for contacting me on.

This girl is 7 and might feel too anxious to ask to phone her mum afterall this is a fairly new arrangement.

[Cravey]

I would go mad if it was my child and you took the phone off them. However maybe put some rules in place. No phone at mealtimes and bed time maybe ? It's a hard one. You think it's wrong but the child's mother doesn't. You can't stop the child wanting to speak to her mum. It's cruel, no matter what you think of her mother and the reasons for the phone etc.

[Frogbyanothername]

cravey Where do you draw line though? When parents are separated, they rarely agree on parenting style/rules.

Should a NRP always defer to the RP and accept whatever they believe is best for the DC?
What is there are other DCs in the family?

Should one child be treated differently because 'their mum says so'?

[Frogbyanothername]

I would want to contact my dds if they were away over night, one night only or more

pink Youve highlighted my point. its most likely that the DCs mother has provided to phone to fulfil her own wants/needs, rather than what is best for the DC. In that situation, the DC will feel obligated to meet her Mums needs, which will create emotional conflict for her.

Mum has to get used to the fact that her DD has a father, an equal parent, who her DD will spend increasing amounts of time with. It may be hard for her, but asking her DD to help her deal with those feelings is unfair.

[RedHelenB]

YABU & it is of more importance to you to score points against the mother than think about how to make the most of the contact your dp has. Children love the people that love them - the main thing is making your home WELCOMING AND SECURE to your dd, banning a phone has nothing to do with that.

[43percentburnt]

You may find she is too busy to bother using it. I guess it depends how actively involved your dh was with her before they split up. At 7 my dd would be far too involved to call me from her aunts, grandparents, my best friend, her teenage babysitters, my other friends with kids etc etc. She would call after tea to say goodnight.

I wouldn't make it into a big deal at all and you may find she doesn't use it once the novelty of having a mobile wears off.

[peggyundercrackers]

frog your advice and explanations on this thread are excellent, in fact some of the best i have seen on MN.

as for someone else saying shes 7 not 17 - trust me 7yr olds know exactly how to blackmail/be manipulative especially when they speak about 'their rights'.

[mrsjay]

frog i agree with you honestly I do but i do think that cutting all contact with the mum in the first little while the girl is at her dads will play right in to the mums hands of course it is the mum being awkward but we dont know why she is being awkward and if it is for the first few times she is at her dads then that is fine imo later on they can withdraw the phone but putting a complete ban on it will just make a delicate situation worse I think,