to say dsd can't have a mobile phone at our house?

[AmigoShamigo]

Dsd is 7. Overnight contact has recently resumed with her and dss who is 6 after their mum stopping contact, moving without informing us, making false allegations etc. Dp said if the dc want to speak to their mum they can, but so far they haven't mentioned her when with us. His ex has now said dsd will be bringing an iPhone with her so she can call/text/whats app etc her mum whenever she likes. Dp has said he'll put the phone away but dsd is often instructed of her 'rights' before contact (I.e. If you tell me off I will be going home as mummy says you must take me if I want to go) so I think she'll want to keep it with her.

Nevermind the fact it has internet access which I'm not happy with dsc or our dc having unsupervised, I think it's very intrusive on our household not to mention disruptive to dps parenting time and undermining of his authority. Aibu to say to dp he needs to tell his ex that the phone isn't welcome at our house rather than make excuses to dsd and ultimately give in and let her retrieve it from wherever he's put it?

[MusicalEndorphins]

I'd let her have it, except for meal times, when nobody uses phones.

[Cravey]

Is true that it's hard to draw the line but this child and her mum should be able to contact each other. The child would end up being traumatised if not able to speak to her mother. One wonders how the step mum would feel of someone did this to her child.

[jen2014]

After 18 months blocked contact we got my DSD back who was then about to turn 6. Her mother initially insisted on speaking to her every night of staying contact (on our phone). It was a pain but we never prevented it and sometimes encouraged DSD to make the call if mum hadn't phoned.
Now DSD is 8, and mum never feels the need to phone to speak to her even when she's with us for 2 weeks at a time (unless it's her birthday/ Christmas etc)
Sometimes I encourage it by saying would you like to phone your mum and tell her you lost your wobbly tooth etc, but DSD very rarely asks to speak to her. Think it's important they're able to contact both parents at any time, it will feel intrusive at first, but will soon taper off if kids (and therefore parents too) feel secure.

[MajorGrinch]

Can you not create a "phone place" where you all keep your phones - in the kitchen, or another room other than the living room.

All phones should be kept in that place and anyone that wants to use one has to go there to do it. That way they're not "in your face".

As long as you're willing to set an example, it could be an option.

[ReadyisKnitting]

Having just had this situation with dss and ds, we chose to put in place house rules regarding mobiles, tablets and internet. We felt that this way we were not contradicting the nrp, but ensuring they are safe here, with the bonus that the rules are clearly established as they reach their teens. It's not easy!

[mumandboys123]

No, I recognise my ex can do what he wants in his house and I have no control over that. I may disagree - I may not - I am pragmatic and realise that there will be differences in parenting. I dont' allow inappropriate downloads or anything like that -it is my ex with little issue of allowing a 4 year old child to watch 18 rated films and then wonder why he wont' sleep at night! He does fundamentally disagree that they should be allowed the access to technology that I allow - that's for him to manage in his home. I am not about to change my views to suit him. It doesn't change the fact that the children would like to be able to use their tablets when with dad and so take them in the hope he'll relent a bit! I can see the step-parenting forum full of 'but the PWC has told him he can't bring his tablet because we wont' allow him to play on it and now he doesn't want to come here' so I just let the children do what they need to do. It doesn't hurt them - they are just learning what they can and can't do in each house.

I think the issue of a child being able to contact their other parent when there has been a history of problematic contact is very different to going on a school trip. It's not the same thing. And the average 7 year old wouldn't be on a school trip overnight, would they? There is little chance of a teacher alluding to one or both of a child's parents being 'wrong' or 'unacceptable' or 'out of order' in some way because the children have brought something with them they disagree with. Teachers should always be acting in the collective 'best interests' and that's very different to how parents manage their relationships with their children, particularly when separated. I don't contact my children when they are with my ex because I believe it's counter-productive to their being able to settle (our youngest was born post-separation so has never lived with dad and cries a lot when he is with him - I am not sure speaking to me for 5 minutes would help matters much). The downside, of course, is I often have one stressed out and angry little boy returned to me who is a nightmare for a few days before he settles again. He never wants to go to dad's house but I shove him out the door with a kiss and cuddle and cheery 'see you on Sunday!'. As he gets older, I anticipate he will be wanting to contact me more so than the older children have wanted and I see no reason to block that for him - my ex may think differently. Time will tell.

I think that different children have different needs and different families work in different ways. We have a child here who has more than likely been exposed to negativity about dad - removing the phone if mum has promised they can keep in contact when she is with dad isn't going to help matters. It will probably re-confirm that dad is the nasty person she has been lead to believe he is - and who knows what it'll say about step mum! There are, of course, boundaries to be had and I don't believe she should have the phone on her at all times, finger at the ready to text! There's a balance to be had, isn't there?

[Frogbyanothername]

I do not agree that a 7 year old child should be provided with the means to contact their parent at will. It is not permitted in schools, even on O/N trips; so why should it be permitted when the child is safe in the care of a loving parent?

mumandboys In relation to your DCs tablet - would you object if your DC Dad refused to allow it to be connected to his Wifi? Or prevented your DC using it if it had 3G?

In the OPs case (and previously, my own) the only way of managing the use of the device is through physical restriction. Putting software parental controls/locks on is a short term solution as they can be overridden by the other parent before the next visit.
There is no harm in setting clear, consistent boundaries or house rules - and if that includes removal of an item that a parent deems inappropriate, then so be it.

Even disregarding potential for the RP to intrude on contact time - it makes sense to implement rules as soon as a device is obtained, rather thsn try and change a pattern of behaviour later. My DHs DD (then 13) was posting provocative pics/sexting via 3G from our home - hence the need for the physical restriction to family areas of the house. The introduction of that rule resulted in her refusing contact - whereas if it had been in place from day 1 of her phone possession (aged 8/9), it would have been less of an issue.
My DH reached the point of removing his DS's(10) ipad that he brought to every visit because of the nature of the games/videos he had been bought/downloaded with his mums agreement. The fact that his DS is not allowed to use his ipad on our wifi, privately in his room when he is here, has been cited in court as a reason why DHs ex is preventing contact.

[mumandboys123]

(As an aside, I challenge anyone to justify the unsupervised provision of a 4G, Internet-enabled iPhone to a 7 year old. It is clear evidence that the RP in this case is acting provocatively against her ex, rather than in the best interests of the DC).

on the one hand, I agree but on the other, my 7 year old has a tablet and uses it (in the same room as me) to access the internet etc. He takes it to dad's house regularly - not because I am 'acting provocatively against my ex' but because he likes it and wants to use it there. I know my ex has far less tolerance than me towards the children sitting on tablets or the laptop or watching TV and he takes them out walking very regularly to avoid it. But I don't think it's for me to tell the children what they can and can't take between houses as it's their stuff and they have a right to have it with them. The children complain dad doesn't let them use their tables much as a result but that's up to dad, not me. I certainly wouldn't get involved or tell my ex he was 'wrong'. And even if I did, he wouldn't listen to me anyway!

I do get tired of the assumption that the PWC is deliberately trying to cause problems for the NRP everytime they make a decision that is contrary to what the NRP believes is best for the children. We've split it, for heaven's sake, we will parent differently and we will disagree on what is right and what is wrong. But I can no more influence what goes on in my ex's home than he can in mine as long as I let his crap go over my head and say 'yes, dear' and then shut the door and do whatever it is I want!

I think where contact has been problematic (no matter who's fault that might be), it is not unreasonable to allow a child the means to be able to contact their other parent at will. If mum provides the means, she's as sure as she can be that her child can contact her if she wants to. If she doesn't provide the means, she will be concerned that dad might play games and mess about and she'll be the one having to pick up the pieces of a distressed 7 year old who says she doesn't want to see dad again because she wasn't allowed to make that phone call.

I agree with frog that you have to find the middle ground and see it from both mum's and the child's perspective. That doesn't mean that you have no control over the phone in your home - far from it - but rather than focus on that, focus on being a loving, welcoming family environment with nice things to do/see/eat and see how things pan out. It doesn't have to be a fight.

[Frogbyanothername]

betterthan the idyllic scenario you describe is hardly likely when the RP has made concerted attempts to block/stop contact completely, is it?

Of course it is intrusive when a DC is coached by phone on how to behave with their other parent, has come off the phone in tears because they have been told off for enjoying themselves at Dads, and suddenly leave contact unexpectedly because arrangements have been made over the phone with no consideration or respect for the NRP.

When one parent is hostile to contact, the other parent can only do everything they can to protect the DC from that. Neither the OP nor her DH can force the DCs mum to "sit down all together" - in fact, not even a court can do that.
Unless you have experienced implacable hostility, it is difficult to understand the lengths people will go to and the damage that is done. The best outcome for the DCs in that situation is damage limitation - they will be conflicted, hurt and confused - it is nevitsble and cannot be avoided without the hostile parent changing their opinion.

[itsbetterthanabox]

You need to stop seeing DDs Mum as the enemy and an intrusion. She is the person who cares for your child. Maybe try spending time all together both of you, DD and her mum?
You both sound like you think you own your child when she's at your respective houses. That is not how it works. The child needs to feel free and comfortable in both homes, not that the homes are at war with each other, her being able to contact her Mum when she's at yours is imperative in her feeling free and comfortable.

[Frogbyanothername]

No one has suggested cutting contact though - just managing the possession (by a young child) of a device designed to provide the DCs mother with the ability to contact, and therefore influence, the DCs emotions and behaviour while she is rebuilding a relationship with her Dad.

In my experience, allowing something to happen, only to withdraw it later is a lot harder than setting out clear boundaries from day 1.

The OPs DH can insist that his DD calls her mum daily from the landline at a time convenient to the household, but the intrusion of texts, IMs, calls and photos will hijack any chance of the DC establishing a place in the OPs family. Call me cynical, but I am certain that is the motivation of the DCs mother. I'm not prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt; she moved home, eliminating the DCs dads ability to remain in contact - that is is the action of a mother who is determined to prevent her DC having a relationship with their dad.

[mrsjay]

frog i agree with you honestly I do but i do think that cutting all contact with the mum in the first little while the girl is at her dads will play right in to the mums hands of course it is the mum being awkward but we dont know why she is being awkward and if it is for the first few times she is at her dads then that is fine imo later on they can withdraw the phone but putting a complete ban on it will just make a delicate situation worse I think,

[peggyundercrackers]

frog your advice and explanations on this thread are excellent, in fact some of the best i have seen on MN.

as for someone else saying shes 7 not 17 - trust me 7yr olds know exactly how to blackmail/be manipulative especially when they speak about 'their rights'.

[43percentburnt]

You may find she is too busy to bother using it. I guess it depends how actively involved your dh was with her before they split up. At 7 my dd would be far too involved to call me from her aunts, grandparents, my best friend, her teenage babysitters, my other friends with kids etc etc. She would call after tea to say goodnight.

I wouldn't make it into a big deal at all and you may find she doesn't use it once the novelty of having a mobile wears off.

[RedHelenB]

YABU & it is of more importance to you to score points against the mother than think about how to make the most of the contact your dp has. Children love the people that love them - the main thing is making your home WELCOMING AND SECURE to your dd, banning a phone has nothing to do with that.

[Frogbyanothername]

I would want to contact my dds if they were away over night, one night only or more

pink Youve highlighted my point. its most likely that the DCs mother has provided to phone to fulfil her own wants/needs, rather than what is best for the DC. In that situation, the DC will feel obligated to meet her Mums needs, which will create emotional conflict for her.

Mum has to get used to the fact that her DD has a father, an equal parent, who her DD will spend increasing amounts of time with. It may be hard for her, but asking her DD to help her deal with those feelings is unfair.

[Frogbyanothername]

cravey Where do you draw line though? When parents are separated, they rarely agree on parenting style/rules.

Should a NRP always defer to the RP and accept whatever they believe is best for the DC?
What is there are other DCs in the family?

Should one child be treated differently because 'their mum says so'?

[Cravey]

I would go mad if it was my child and you took the phone off them. However maybe put some rules in place. No phone at mealtimes and bed time maybe ? It's a hard one. You think it's wrong but the child's mother doesn't. You can't stop the child wanting to speak to her mum. It's cruel, no matter what you think of her mother and the reasons for the phone etc.

[boydonewrongagain]

Get the phone, go into settings, create a pass number and say nothing.

When your dsd then goes to pick it up and can't use it, do a completely baffled face and suggest she uses the house phone if she wants to call someone.

I would be furious if someone did that to my daughters phone that she specifically had for contacting me on.

This girl is 7 and might feel too anxious to ask to phone her mum afterall this is a fairly new arrangement.

[ThePinkOcelot]

I would want to contact my dds if they were away over night, one night only or more. YABU.

[SingMoreWhenYoureWinning]

When she brings it, get her distracted.

Get the phone, go into settings, create a pass number and say nothing.

When your dsd then goes to pick it up and can't use it, do a completely baffled face and suggest she uses the house phone if she wants to call someone.

[AmigoShamigo]

Agree with you completely frog.

Dp will let dsd call her mum whenever she likes, he just thinks her having her own phone is disruptive to his limited time with her. The phone isn't allowed to be used for dp to have contact with the children at their mum's house.

[Shelby2010]

frog yes, it's a lot more difficult if the adults won't act like adults.

[Frogbyanothername]

shelby in an ideal world, yes, free contact between a DC and her parents is a good thing.
But the OP has made it clear that the DCs mum is hostile to contact. In that situation, the damage that can be done is immense.

My DHs DDs mum used to text her all the time: "I'm sorry you can't be at home here with me" "not long now, make the best of it" "it's not the same here without you". She told DHs DS on the phone that "even the cat was missing him" - and that was less than 6 hours after he'd left his mum; after a few days, she'd cry on the phone to him because she hated being apart from him. DH did restrict telephone contact for a while, at His DS request, but of course, DS mum didn't believe it.

This constant drip, drip, drip of negativity leads the DCs to feel incredibly conflicted - if they have a good time with Dad then they feel guilty because Mum is missing them, or thinks it should be a chore spending time with him. If the DC fears retribution from Mum if they have a good time with Dad then it's even worse; the intrusion of the phone/texts means that the DC can never forget their mums rules, even for a second.

[Shelby2010]

Well to be fair it's usually a cheap PAYG that's suggested, but I have seen it on several threads. And it seems to be the Internet that people are against rather than contact itself.

Also, unless the mum is going to take the phone off her DD, this could be an opportunity for the dad to have more contact if he's the one texting her, sending her photos etc?