Enid Blyton - ridiculous

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Dick and Fannie from The Magic Faraway Tree have been renamed Rick and Frannie.

I'm a bit pissed off. How ridiculous!

I think the presence of politically uncomfortable content in books (and other bits of culture) is an interesting question. And interesting topic for discussion.

It doesn't stop with just Enid Blyton, you know. It's a major issue in higher education, and is a fairly hot topic in the arena of Literature (the capitalisation of L is intentional) in American universities. People are writing dissertations and articles about it.

While I don't expect everyone on mn to be a cornell West or Toni Morrison, or even a Susan Sontag or Raymond Williams in terms of insight and intellectual fleibility, a shambling and grunted: "Well, just don't read it then" is ... particularly disappointing.

I imagine a circle of prehistoric beings, gathered around a fish. One of them grunts something like: "This is a bit crap. Do you think we could do something with it? Add a few herbs maybe? stick it on the fire, or something? Anything, really, because it really sucks eating it just like this."

A chorus of: "Well don't eat it then," ensues (in prehistoric grunts, or whatever). Thank goodness that some of those grunters decided to just go ahead and do some kicking ideas-beyond-the-immediately-to-hand around.

Wouldn't life be tedious otherwise? Now, thankfully, we live in a world where chocolate bars contain exploding space dust. Whoever would have guessed we'd be here if they'd been eavesdropping on that bunch.

And, of course, there is is still room in this world for raw fish.

I agree, DeWe. The other think I like about Enid Blyton is that she didn't fall into the trap of devaluing skills such as keeping an environment clean, and being good with people. And she was right not to. And the fact that there is both George and Anne stops the books from sliding into just one possibility or another.

Uncle Quentin's a total Red Flag. A lot of the parents are crap. Some are properly negligent. I think that's fascinating.

But, anyway, I think I've been a bad-tempered fink in an earlier post, so I'm going to just lurk now. I don;t like it when I'm mean.

"I find Enid Blyton quite fascinating. Because although people accuse her of sexism-when she wrote them she was actually the other way.
To have George doing what the boys did-and better that them was really not done at the time, probably caused a few raised eyebrows. Not having the girls staying at home keeping out of danger was probably considered by some people that the boys had failed to keep them safe."

at the characterization of George as a proto feminist.There is no suggestion that George is anything but a complete oddball for wanting to do "boy's stuff". The boys occasionally are forced into grudging admiration,nut it doesn't last, and is very quickly replaced by the usual mocking contempt.

Oh, and somebody said that if they weren't popular, they would have quitetly disappeared. The reason they don't disappear is that nostalgic adults buy them. I would put money on there being loads or unread sets on our children's bookshelves!

right back at you, the cat

And you think you're not being patronising?

Do you know the meaning of the word? Perhaps you need to go to another thread to find the insightful and intellectually flexible MNers you are trying to find.

Fucking rude.

My DD has loved Enid Blyton (wish she still consumed Malory Towers now like she did at 8-11, now it's all bloody Twilight clones and other related crap at 13) and we've always discussed together what we think about certain things in the books. She thinks they are dreadfully sexist, and loves to say how Anne is such a wuss, but recognises that they were of the time, and often how people thought way back when. It's been educational for her to find out about changing attitudes and how feminism and enlightenment changed thinking. She could still enjoy the books as stories - they are great stories, after all, if a tad formulaic.

DS is not interested really (he's 10) - it's still all Harry Potter and Wimpy Kid and minecraft manuals for him, and that's fine. I occasionally suggest he might like to try a Famous Five story for a bit of a change, and he looks at me like OK.

As for changing names - I told my dc what the original names were when we read the Faraway Tree, they were still quite little so didn't really blink but now they snigger about it, but again I think it's part of it, part of children learning about times in history. YANBU.

Agree with the OP that it's rediculous to change the names. My ds is currently reading his way through the 'of adventure' series and absolutely loves them. The sexism and non PC aspect is no more real to him than the fantasy lands in the Beast Quest books he read before these. I think they provide a great snapshot of a time where views on many things were very different to how they are now.

I would put money on there being loads or unread sets on our children's bookshelves

Curlew, I think you are probably right about that with the books aimed at older children, such as The Secret Seven, Famous Five, the Adventure books-they are clearly dated and of a particular time that modern children would probably be unable to relate to. But maybe it would be less true of the books aimed at younger children like Noddy, The Faraway Tree, and the Wishing Chair as they are based on make believe and not reality?

I don't know-my DSes weren't interested in reading Enid Blyton - although actually not interested in reading full stop, much to my dismay.

I tend towards the 'put in a well-written preface and leave well alone' school of thought, but I think we should also think about it from the point of view of non-white children today encountering crude racial stereotypes in the work of a big-name children's author. Some posters seem to be falling into Blyton's own trap, assuming that all her readers are white.

(While we're on EB's racial politics, am I right in remembering that in The Secret Mountain there is an African tribe who dye their skin white and their hair red while sacrificing passing strangers to the sun god?)

Thanks to whoever remembered the 'Adventurous Four' title. What I remember about that one is not that they eventually escape and heroically nab the Nazis, but the way that EB managed, even with her characters marooned on a remote, uninhabited island, to shoehorn in a lot of piggish feasting on tinned sausages and peaches!

I'm sure George ultimately admits that she's just a poor pretence at a boy, and needs to accept her girlishness, in the end.

I loved Enid Blyton. I read the books again and again. I don't remember them being racist or sexist but that's not to say they weren't. I enjoyed them for the stories.
However if they are racist then they should be cleaned up or not reprinted. It's not acceptable to let your kids knowingly read racist literature just because it was written in the olden days.
The stories will still be the same without the bile.

It might have been socially acceptable to be a raging racist middleclass English snob back in the day but it doesn't mean it was right.

It's the one where they stay with a rich, black family, whose son is at school with one of the brothers.

What book was that, it doesn't ring a bell.

FWIW lots of my friends who have older DCs have said their DCs loved EB books. I work in a library and they are still popular.

My older son wouldn't touch them. He's much more into Percy Jackson, Artemis Fowl and The Hunger Games. After reading an EB Find Outer book with the youngest recently - I don't blame him.

Artemis Fowl is amazing! DH and I discovered them as adults when his eldest recommended them. Will definitely be waving them under DCs' noses when they're old enough :o

Someone mentioned Dick from the 70s TV show - his name was Gary Russell. He has a tshirt named after him here - made me :o

Maybe when you're in the bath, or on the loo, or something.
. . .
Having said all that, I think I'd like to add that one of the things about Blyton's sexism is that it is not simple

So having been so condescending you had to admit that it was more complicated than you originally thought?

Oh, and somebody said that if they weren't popular, they would have quitetly disappeared. The reason they don't disappear is that nostalgic adults buy them. I would put money on there being loads or unread sets on our children's bookshelves!

I don't think that is true at all. My mother got me books that she was nostalgic about, I remember one was 'Anne of Green Gables' which I never managed to finish, I hated it.
I have presented mine with Enid Blyton and they simply never liked it.

They are still with us because many children like them. I am all for children having a library ticket and a free choice. I found my best books that way and still do.

Children learn through their own experiences, they don't appreciate good literature if they never get any bad literature.
Some parents seem terrified of letting their children have a free rein. If it is in the children's library I would deem it suitable to choose.

I don't think that we should cut them off from attitudes of the past, it is important to put things in historical context and learn from it-or at least understand.

I was a voracious reader of Enid Blyton's books, they were my biblio crack. This was the 1980s so they were just as dated to me then as they would be to a child today. I never read any of her books for younger children as I couldn't bear talking animals or magic or any of that nonsense but absolutely devoured Famous Five/Adventure series/boarding school tales. I don’t remember examples of racism in these books although snobbery and sexism abounded. I remember rolling my eyes at Anne the docile little lamb and Julian the hectoring know it all and having conversations with my mother about this.

I flicked through one of her books recently and unlike some other children’s books they really don't stand up to revisiting as an adult. The writing is repetitive, predictable, simplistic and plodding. Nothing like I remember them. So I conclude that the real magic of reading EB as a nipper is that she sparks the imagination, gives you some badly drawn characters and a plot by numbers and whooooooosh, your own imagination takes over and turns it into some kind of magic.

I think if a child is showing an interest in reading they should be left to read whatever they want. Little I hated more than being pointed in the direction of books that adults thought I should be reading.

I think if a child is showing an interest in reading they should be left to read whatever they want. Little I hated more than being pointed in the direction of books that adults thought I should be reading.

My feelings.
I don't think EB stands rereading as an adult-they are dire through an adult eyes and you can't get back to how you saw them as a child.
Where as some books are better as an adult-I think Winnie the Pooh was wasted on me as a child.

I think that everyone who was a prolific reader as a child has real pleasure in that although people might recommend a book they made lots of discoveries for themselves. It is why it is not a good idea to put an age on a children's book. It depends entirely on the child reading it. Some will want to stay with much younger books whereas some 10 year olds will be devouring Dickens. As a child, as an adult, you read for different purposes. I read EB to unwind, they were easy, exciting, didn't need any effort, took you into a different world and could be finished in an few hours. I definitely have my comfort books as an adult but I also like a challenge.
We all like variety.

Reading all these comments with interest, as my DS (8) still likes me to read to him at night. We have finished The Faraway Tree and are now on Famous Five. He adores them and says it sparks his imagination, especially if he listens while I read, rather than him reading to himself. I grew up on Enid Blyton and adored everything - St Clare's, Mallory Towers, Enchanted Wood, Famous Five etc. Re-reading as an adult, yes they are dated and somehow not as good as I remember, but for some children, they clearly still have some magic. I will confess to preferring the Rick/Frannie notion, as DS sniggers every time I have to mention Dick in FF! Times have moved on and the fantasy aspect is still great, but I can see how society would view certain aspects of the books to be unacceptable by modern standards. I don't think it does any harm and DS understands how things have changed.

I was a child in the 50's when a lot of Enid Blyton books were written and although I devoured most books, I hated her's. Too middle class for us village children. They were definately toffs kids, the sort of families our mothers cleaned for and our fathers worked for.

But you made your own mind up, drudge, which is the important thing-your mother didn't make up her mind for you!
You notice a lot more as an adult. One Famous Five has them being dreadful to the cleaner's son. It is appalling. They are 4 confident children who go away to school and know each other well. He is younger, very shy and likes to stay in with jigsaw puzzles and books and they bully him terribly over it!

I have to say, I really am finding the FF as magical as I did back then. But that may be because I am seeing them through DD's eyes! Seeing her gasp with excitement at the same bits I loved is absolutely amazing and something I genuinely looked forward to before DD was even born.

I have a lot of love for nostalgia - maybe beyond a normal amount because my childhood was mostly shit and so books/videos were a huge comfort and secure attachment. But I just absolutely love sharing the things I enjoyed with her now. I'd never pressure her into it - there have been some cartoons for example that have left her underwhelmed. But at the moment she likes me bringing home books for her (a range of 'classics' and modern stuff like Claude, Winnie the witch etc) and asking me about how old I was when I read it and things like that. So I'm making the most of it - some of my colleagues have DCs who refuse on principle anything that they say they like :o

I loathe Enid Blyton books. A family member gave us a collection of noddy books and they're just unreadable. Badly written, poorly plotted, full of stuff I'm not willing to read to DS2 (we hid the book where the gypsies steal noddy's car, for example, after careful editing as we read), all the characters are awful, the stuff that happens is so often unfair (despite Blyton claiming it is fair). I cannot express how much I dislike them.

We went to the Enid Blyton exhibition in the seven stories in newcastle (only because it was on and we were there for how to train your dragon). Ds2 was not at all interested and refused to even consider us reading the magic faraway tree to him.