to think this 'campaign' is inane and moronic

[AgaPanthers]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25894902

"With about 250 friends on Facebook, Paul Cookson did not expect a "rant" he posted to have much impact.

He wrote that he was "sick to death" of being "ripped off" by companies which put up holiday prices outside school term time.

A few friends agreed, and followed his request to "share this post if you have also had enough".

It soon went viral, and more than 143,000 people have shared it so far.

Supporters also began signing an online petition calling for government action and this has now gone far beyond the 100,000 signatures needed for a possible debate in Parliament."

--
It follows with some illustrations about the extra cost of an all-inclusive week in Lanzarote during half-term compared with the following/previous week.

For fuck's sake. It's February. Not many people are going on holiday. Despite the price increase, the AI in Lanzarote will be FULL during half-term. The following week it will be nearly empty because obviously family resorts are going to get booked up mainly during school holidays.

So if they make the price the same all year round, they will get even fewer visitors in non-peak times, and it will probably be more economical to close the hotel down and put people out of work/on zero hour contracts, than to keep it open, because obviously if the price is always the same then the popular dates will book up first.

Ridiculous bleating on about their human rights to jet off to Playa De Las Americas for a week of egg and chips and sitting on the beach.

Next they'll be complaining that they have a human right to dinner for two on Valentines Day at the midweek lunch rate.

It's February, the weather is shit, unless you fly a good distance south. There is a capacity in terms of planes and hotels to plonk people on the beach in the Canaries that does not meet school holiday demand, so prices are high. Simples. (Although if he did want a family break, there are plenty of places in Europe, that while not enjoying bucket + spade weather, could still be nice for a family trip, and very affordable.)

Wait till Easter, even, and the weather will be better, and hence more short-haul destinations open up for family breaks and you can find something more affordable.

But fundamentally you do not have a right to cheap holidays in the sun in February half-term.

[LaurieFairyCake]

And part of growing into adulthood is realising that all that marketing shit is just er.... shit and that you will never get a 2 carat Tiffany diamond, a Volvo 4by4, a round the world cruise and a large 4 bedroom house.

I have coveted all those things but at some point, when you reach maturity (and I'm not there every day myself ) you realise you can't have them.

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

Yes indeed - and that it doesn't matter!

[Rooners]

Think they need to focus on the schools fining people so much for taking a few days off during term.

that would be more to the point.

Thanks for explaining the economics of it though as I didn't understand them before ::thicky::

[Rooners]

Oh and Laurie - not everyone who doesn't understand economics is actually really, you know, stupid. Not all the time anyway

I happen to have a very high IQ but don't get economics at all. I blame economics for being complicated.

[PlumpPartridge]

Should cars be cheaper so everyone can afford them?
No; there is such a wide variety of choices that no-one has to miss out.

Should luxury brands lower their prices?
No - the clue is in the name there. They're not claiming that everyone can have a piece of them, or that they are a normal part of life.

Should other leisure activities (restaurants, theme parks, cinemas, bowling, soft okay, swimming pools etc..) not have peak times?
No, because those are activities that can occur at any time of the year and there is a chance you will actually have an opportunity to go at a cheaper time.

With school holidays and bookings, there isn't really any alternative than to stay at home or to spend ages searching for cheaper options. It's just a bit miserable.

[LaurieFairyCake]

I didn't mean that Rooners. I said the campaign was for stupid people.

And now you know about the economics you won't be joining the campaign

[PlumpPartridge]

I'll say again, I don't feel it's my human right to have a holiday or anything. I can just see why people feel upset that they have been priced out of the holiday market.

[PlumpPartridge]

Not signing up, mind you

[LaurieFairyCake]

There's a difference between being 'upset ' (perfectly normal, I'd love to go abroad) and starting a campaign expecting to actually change the free market.

One is a perfectly reasonable feeling, the second an act of idiocy.

[Juno77]

plump but not everyone can afford a car or a luxury item or a day out at the cinema.

There are cheaper options, like cheaper cars, but there are also more expensive holidays and cheaper holidays. Essentially it's the same thing.

With school holidays, you do know you don't have to go away? This is a marketing ploy that's obviously worked in you and made you feel like you are missing something essential. You aren't.

There are cheaper options for everything. Some people aren't able to afford even the cheapest.

[PlumpPartridge]

Well, it's possible that the unreasonable consumers will prod the holiday companies into 'special one-off never-to-be-repeated' reductions, in an effort to show willing. I look forward to this potential development

Also, I reiterate my point about staggering school holiday times. I can't see why that wouldn't help the situation.

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

Capitalism - this is what it's about. I do wish people would stop whingeing about expensive non-term time holidays, it's not a necessity to go away every school holiday.

[HazleNutt]

So UK government should somehow tell hotels in Spain how much they can charge?

[PlumpPartridge]

Yes Juno, I do know that. I haven't left the UK since 2010, and since I grew up in the Middle East and flew at least twice a year it really chafes. I know that there are people out there who are much worse off than me. Does that mean I should just sit quiet and think 'could be worse' on every occasion?

[Juno77]

plump it wouldn't help everyone. Only a small subset of society.

There would be people with children in different schools.
There would be teachers with children in other schools.
There would be people who still can't afford a holiday.

There's also the basic fact that holiday companies are a business and trade at peak times. So all the staggered times would be at an increased rate. And no one would benefit.

[Juno77]

But why does it chafe?

We have no right to holidays. They are 100% a luxury. They cost what they cost. If you can't afford to take your children outwith term time, then you can't go. Same as anything else you can/can't afford.

[DuckworthLewis]

YANBU, but I suggest you rethink your use of the term 'moronic' - it is a horrible, disablist insult and has no place in a civilised debate.

[PlumpPartridge]

According to the BBC article, holiday companies rely upon the profits they make at peak times of the year. So in theory they could charge a flat rate throughout the year (or at least bring the ends of the spectrum closer together) to increase their potential audience.

As fot the people who just can't afford a holiday, I don't know what you want me to suggest for them. I can't fix it. Wish I could, but I can't.

[MeepMeepVrooooom]

Of course nobody is "entitled" to a holiday but it's hardly an argument. You are aloud to want things and be disappointed you can't afford them because of price increases.

If someone posted saying "I saved up money all year for my childs birthday party and the venue has increased the value by 50% because it happens to fall in the week before Christmas" would you say well your daughter isn't entitled to one?

By the way I do actually think the FB campaign is ridiculous.

[PlumpPartridge]

It chafes because it used to be affordable for people like me (i.e. both parents working, mortgage, paying for childcare) and now it isn't. Apparently we are the first generation for a very long time that will see a drop in their living standards compared to the generation before, and things like this are symptomatic of that.

[Juno77]

No, I wouldn't say she isn't entitled to a birthday party, I would say that her party will cost more if you choose to have it the week before Christmas, and that's economics and that's your choice.

Being disappointed that you can't afford something is one thing. Campaigning that the price of luxury items is too high is another. And it is ridiculous.

[Juno77]

Plump - then the campaign should be to increase the living wage, and prevent recession by encouraging businesses, promoting apprenticeships, lowering education costs etc.

Not making holidays cheaper outwith term time.

[MeepMeepVrooooom]

I suggest you rethink your use of the term 'moronic' - it is a horrible, disablist insult and has no place in a civilised debate.

No it's not, some people may use it this way in error and in the context you describe but the definition is actually very foolish or stupid. I think it's clear the OP didn't mean it in the way you have interoperated it.

[Grennie]

Nearly everyone who is working or on benefits is having a drop in their living standards at the moment.

[PlumpPartridge]

I think maybe the holiday campaign is symptomatic of a wider dissatisfaction in society. We've been told for a long time that we CAN have everything, that nothing is out of our reach, that we can live the life we want to live. And now it's turned into 'no of course you can't, don't be so silly, you've got to be sensible'.

Even the most clear-headed and practical of us (of course this means all of MN ) will have been taken in by the hype occasionally. I find the contradictory messages and wanton manipulation of my consumer brain infuriating and irresponsible. I hate feeling that the onus is on me to see through their bullshit and not on them to refrain from ladling bullshit in the first place.