AIBU to think the church minister has guilt tripped my husband regarding children at DFIL funeral

[LeeLooLahLah]

Short summary: DFIL fought cancer for a long time and sadly passed away on Monday. DH and I have never mentioned taking our 6yr old twin boys to the funeral and after going to organise the service with his family we agreed the boys wouldn't be attending.

So today, DH goes to his Mums and the minister who is conducting the service is there. Cut to DH walking in and telling me that the minister thinks children should be there as it is proven to help them understand and cope with death so he wants them to go.

I was like; Erm, These are my children. She has never met them and she has never met me. How does she know I am not helping my DTs understand and cope in other ways? DH got annoyed because I said it sounded like she was trying to guilt trip him into bringing the children.

We are not religious and I have been very careful with the way I have worded answers about the whole cancer/death/cremation topic so I am confident my 6 year olds understand and can grieve. I do not want them to get confused by a lady standing there talking about God and stuff when it isn't something I can back up if they ask questions afterwards.
Plus, DH and I will be handling our own grief that day and I don't think it is fair on children to see Mummy and Daddy upset or else it's not fair on us if we feel we can't get upset because they are there, it'll hinder our ability to release our own feelings

AIBU to think this minister was trying to guilt trip my husband into bringing the children to "godwash" them or am I being a bit emotional and overprotective of my boys?
Should I take them to the funeral? This is so tough.

[loisismyhero]

I think personally that it can be helpful for the children to attend the funeral. My children attended my father's funeral - they were 9, 3 and 1 at the time and they were fine. On the flip side my grandmother died when I was 9 and I didn't go the funeral - I went on a pre arranged school residential instead. It still rankles, to be honest. Having said that, they're your children. I'm Irish, and like others have said, Irish death culture is very different to British death culture, from what I can see. In Ireland a six year old would probably be very much part of the ceremony - my nine year old brought up the gifts at my father's funeral and you would often see children reading the prayers of the faithful at funerals here. It's not really about religion for them - it's about being part of celebrating and remembering the life.

[StanleyLambchop]

I did not take my children to my Dad's funeral. We are a religious family , but it was more that I knew I was going to be crying my eyes out through the service, and I did not want them to see that. They were Ok with the decision. I also think it is hard for children to sit through funerals, and this often leads to conflict with other family members who may disapprove of what they see as 'inappropriate behaviour'. So YANBU to make your own decisions about your own children, but you did come over as being anti- religion in the OP. I see you realised that in your update, so fair enough.

[hiccupgirl]

I don't think not taking 6 yr olds to a funeral is going to make them angry or scar them for life tbh. If they were 8 or 9 I would give them a choice of attending or not but at 6 they are still too young I think and I don't see what is wrong with you and your husband having the chance to think of yourselves that day and grieve more openly. I also don't see what is wrong with wanting to protect young children from the whole reality of death where possible.

My great grandparents all died when I was 6-8 and I was quite close to them and saw them regularly. My parents just told me they had died and there was no question of going to the funeral - it just wasn't considered appropriate to have young children there. As an adult I think this was the right thing to do and I would do the same with my DS.

[unlucky83]

It is your decision but I think you should take them. Otherwise you create a mystery and misunderstanding - what is so terrible that they can't see it?

DD1 didn't go to my grandmother's funeral (crematorium) just the wake - she would have been 3. She was too young to remember anything really - except she played with playdough with my sister's friend (and she was scared of my grandmother anyway) .

She did go to my Great aunts funeral at 6 (with Dd2 at 5 weeks old) - that was a church service and burial. We were worried about her seeing the coffin being buried but actually it was good thing - she thought they took the body out of the coffin before they buried etc and was a bit scared by that. Her greatest memory is the cream cakes at the wake.

They both went to my uncle's funeral (crematorium). DD1 (just 11) and DD2 (just 5) and again it was fine. DD2 cried at one point too and I gave her a cuddle. We didn't view my uncle's body and I really wish we had as DD2 has asked lots of questions.
(She also didn't see me bury her sister's hamster at about 3 and she wanted me to dig him up the day after to see)

They both said they don't like when they see me (and other adults) cry, it frightens them - but they saw that as he was dying as well. And it is a fact of life.
What they imagine is scarier than the reality.
And as to the religious bit - both mine go to Sunday School - I'm an atheist and the minister knows that. Sent DD1 because religion is so important in the world that I thought it would be good to know about it and how churches etc work. They know I don't believe but some people do etc - they can make their own decisions.
I went to Sunday school etc but I don't believe. If I can make that decision - as an adult and armed with the facts - surely I can trust them to make the right decision for themselves too.

[ghostofawasp]

I took my DS to the funerals of my grandparents - but when DFIL died we had two aged 2 and 4, so we didn't take them into the church but took them to the wake afterwards. The only reason we didn't take them was because they would have struggled to sit still and not fight/shout/be raucous for all that length of time. I generally think though that kids should be exposed to adults going through a range of emotions, I let my children see me cry at films, or when pets die, they see me and DH argue and express anger... Obviously not in a shouty sweary way, but they see that two people can disagree, resolve something and still carry on afterwards. I was brought up in a house where emotion was not tolerated and was kept behind closed doors, it took me years to realise how utterly unhealthy that was.

I agree with littlewhitebag - you know your own children, but they might surprise you with their take on the situation.

[OTheHugeManatee]

When FIL died 2 years ago everyone would have been appalled if his two youngest GC (then 1 and 5) weren't there. Particularly because the 5yo lived with them and absolutely needed to be part of the big collective farewell to him, not some anodyne 'child friendly' version.

They didn't attend the actual interment but the funeral? Absolutely.

[BlueSkyandRain]

I'm sorry for your loss lee . Just to add my own experiences in case it helps - last year our son was stillborn at 36 weeks and a few months later my grandad died. Our dcs who were 8, 6 and 4 went to both funerals. With our son, it was absolutely necessary that they went - they were so upset that they had never seen their brother or held him or anything. We were given a booklet by the funeral directors that was really helpful and explained that children can often be helped by being involved with a funeral and cremation service - often if things are hidden from children they fill in the gaps themselves and get much more scared by the things they imagine than they would be if they knew the truth. It explored things like whether you have the curtain close around the coffin at the crem and what children think about what happens after that, etc.

I can't find a link to anything similar but it might be worth asking the funeral directors you're using - especially as you feel uncomfortable with religious approaches and they'll be more impartial. But the gist of it was to be honest, open and straightforward with them, whatever your choices in terms of the service etc. To answer their questions as best you can and if the answer is 'I don't know' then that's ok - the worst thing is hiding things as they notice but then can't trust you, they hide their worries and it feeds their fears.

Obviously you know your dcs best, but mine would have been upset and angry if we'd not let them come in either case - their grief is as real and strong as anyone else's. I know very well the feeling of wanting to shield them and protect them, and I still wish I could. But death, unfortunately, is a part of life and learning how to walk alongside others in their grief rather than expecting them to hide it away is something I wish more people would do. One of my hopes in my dcs having had to experience all this is they will grow up more able to do just that.

I don't think my dcs are particularly more able to 'behave' than most, and funeral services aren't usually very long so unlike previous posters I'd totally disagree with the view that it's inappropriate for that reason. At 6 they are used to assemblies etc. at school. I suppose I ought to say that for us there was no concern about different approaches as both services were Christian, and we are too. But if that hadn't been the case, I think we'd just go along the lines (that we have at weddings etc) that different people believe different things, and you make your own choices when you're ready. Maybe it would be worth talking to the vicar about your worries? It does sound as though she was trying to help, and I really don't think many these days would use a funeral as a time to deliberately try to convert anyone.

Most of all I really echo what others have said that it is a good thing - if considered odd or wrong in our culture - for children to see their parents grieving and sad when they are. It validates their own feelings, means it's ok to express their own sadness rather than teaching them to bottle it up. So whatever you decide is best, please do let them see you being sad at times. I wish you all the best whatever you end up doing x

[Scholes34]

DD went to the funeral of her friend's father when she was 7. I felt it was important for her to go. Took the children out of school for my aunt's funeral when they were 10,12 and 14.

We were especially tearful when the hearse and coffin arrived at my uncle's home and we all followed in our cars, led by one of the funeral directors walking slowly down the road in front of the hearse. As we turned into the main road we picked up speed and eventually were on a dual carriageway. At this point, DD asked "How fast is that lady running?" not realising she'd obviously got into the car as we turned into the main road. This was a lovely tale to tell at the "party", bringing laughter through the tears.

IME, children at funerals bring a joy and celebration of life, and I feel it's good for them to see adults cry and show their emotions.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

My DH has lost his grandfather and his father in the last year or so. My DCs were 4 and 2 when their great-grandfather died and 4 and 3 when their grandfather died. We didn't take them to either funeral or wake. It just didn't seem right and we were able to leave them in familiar places (nursery or school then a friend's) while the funerals took place.

What we did with them was light candles for the grandfathers and also say goodbye to them. In the case of FIL this included going along to the church to see his funeral flowers and attending his ashes being put into the ground at the churchyard. Both of these things were private with only a few family members there. To me this seemed a more age appropriate way of remembering their grandfathers. If they resent not attending the funeral in future it will break my heart as I put a lot of thought into this and honestly thought it was the best thing for the children.

I realise my DCs are a bit younger than the OP's but my daughter will be 5 in a few months and I don't think that would change my decision to be honest. I also think answering curious children's questions on death is very hard. It would complicate things for the child to be told contrary to what your parents have said your grandfather is with God.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

Sorry DD will be 6 in a few months not 5.

[Scholes34]

I don't think the minister has guilt tripped your DH. I think a good and supportive conversation has taken place, and had you been party to it too, it's quite possible you would have felt the same as your DH afterwards.

[Sirzy]

The minister has expressed her opinion based on presumably quite a vast amount of experince of bereavement.

I think the important thing is what your children want, if they want to go take them if not make alternative arrangements.

[OldBeanbagz]

I took my DD to her Grandad's funeral when she was 5 years old. He was a huge part of her life and there seemed no reason not to take her. She wanted to go (despite being the only child there) and the vicar gave her the very important job of lighting a candle.

Neither DH or me are religious but the service wasn't about us. It was about FIL, his wishes and we were merely there to say a final goodbye.

I would ask your DT whather they want to go. Explain to them what's going to happen on the day so that they know eveything in advance. And have a look at the Winston's Wish site. There's loads of good advice on there.

[MrsMoon76]

I do think children should go to funerals. As mentioned by a pp children are welcome at funerals in Ireland. We learn to see death and funerals as a part of life, as a part of family life. We also do a lot of open coffins at the wakes which horrified and upset my 38 year old husband who had never seen a dead body up to that point and never been to a funeral as a child. He has a real fear of death and I think part of that issue is due to it being hidden from him growing up. I have a very sad memory of hugging my dad at a funeral (his brother's) as a small child. He was bawling and my brother and I hugging him for dear life. It was upsetting but I was so glad I was there with him to comfort him.

[Dubjackeen]

OP, my condolences on your loss. Lots of good advice here already, and some lovely stories. It's a tough one to decide what is best. You can only try to figure, with your husband, how you think it would affect the children, as you are the ones who know them best. Practicalities also are important, of course, in your decision, e.g.if there are long journeys involved, long ceremony, etc, all of these need to be taken into consideration.
Personally, I think it's nice for children to attend, if possible, especially when they knew the person. It's the circle of life, and children often surprise adults, in their take on death. Lovely story upthread of the child saying goodbye to their own relative, and then at the other graves. I think that can help a child to understand and accept death, rather than be fearful of it.
I would think the church minister meant well, and while I understand your initial reaction, it might help to have a chat with her.

[treas]

My mother died last summer. My dc were very close to her but didn't attend her funeral, DM did not agree with children at funerals herself.

However, they do not feel that they haven't said their goodbyes because we went out as a family (DF, DSis, DH, DC and myself) for a meal where we remembered and talked about DM.

DM often pops up in their conversation in fond remembrance and when we visit my dad we are going over to DM's according to them.

People say goodbye in different ways - not attending a funeral does not mean dc are being shielded from death.

[wowfudge]

OP - it's up to you. If your decision is for them not to go, that's fine. You know how close the relationships were and can best judge whether your DC should go. Now if you are not sure, then maybe a chat with minister will help.

I don't think it's nice to attend any funeral. That's my view. When one of my grandmothers died I was about 8; my younger sister and I didn't go to the funeral. We did, however, attend a memorial service for her a few weeks later. Our much younger cousin, who was 3 or 4 at the time did the same. Having attended funerals later in life, I don't think we missed out.

A couple of years ago, a friend's father died and her DC (3 under the age of 7) attended. They were, frankly, bored, couldn't sit still and didn't understand what was going on (they were sitting behind us; not at the front so they couldn't run around). After the church service they then went to the burial. I don't know what they made of that as I left after the church service.

[Gladvent]

I am sorry for your loss.

My DC have been to funerals since they were babes in arms. When my Nanna died we had open casket at home and they saw her, they were 5 and 7 at the time. DS stood alongside me as I read tribute at crem. Death is nothing to be shielded from. That said it is different for everyone. The best I can advise is to go with your gut instincts.

[JackNoneReacher]

I don't think there is a right or wrong about them going although if they go I think they'll be fine.

However I do think its for you to decide, not the minister who is entitled to an opinion but certainly doesn't have all the answers.

Also, as she doesn't know the boys, and presumably hasn't been asked for her thoughts on the matter I think she'd be better to keep her opinions to herself.

[Meow75]

I agree with other posters that the idea of shielding your children from your grief is wrong. Do you want them to think that your DH/you didn't love or like their DGF? Is it so awful that your kids see you cry and realise the emotions that you are capable of? I think that's really sad.

Why do you think attending the funeral will affect their "innocence" whatsoever?

I was 18 before I attended a funeral, and I find them extremely difficult, even when - like the last 2 I've been to - they were for the parents of my very close friend, who I love very much but thought her parents were utter fools - mainly for the shit they tried to pull on their daughter - but I still wept.

[BrunoBrookesDinedAlone]

To go back to your original annoyance at the minister's comment OP - I think it is entirely understandable and would REALLY have got my back up as well.

Basically you have/had a situation where you and your DH had carefully discussed how to parent your DCs in a sensitive situation - based on not only your own experiences but your knowledge of your own children. To then have a person who is a complete stranger to your family then inform either of you that in fact you 'should' do things differently is completely inappropriate. Doesn't matter what the situation is, and the minister would be well placed to avoid using that language in future - there is no 'should' with a grieving family, and they should know that.

The advice might indeed be sound, but all she succeeded in doing was getting your back up to the extent that you suspected that she was only interested in her own 'gain'. That says it all!

Some of the experiences folk have shared on here might now be leading you to come to a different decision - again, says it all. Sympathetic folk saying 'Well, when we had this situation we found xx really helpful for our dc' - very useful. Someone saying 'Oh NO you should do it THIS way' - err, back off lady - I'm the parent thanks!!!

[underachievingmum]

I am also not religious but it may be worth taking the minister up on her offer - she will have experience of children at funerals.

Just to follow something said upthread.... My grandfather died just over a year ago when DD1 was 4 (in reception at school). We had much debate about taking her to the funeral and in the end didn't. She was struggling enough with the concept of death. This was not helped when a few months later the vicar took an assembly at school (church school which also happens to be our catchment school hence the reason she goes there) during which he said that people who have died don't really leave us and live on in heaven...... Cue an absolutely distraught 4 year old at bedtime wanting to know why she couldn't go to heaven and visit great grandad

[SparklyTwinkleGlitter]

I took my DS to his DGM's funeral but he was only 9 months old so not an issue really, especially as he slept through most of it. If anything, his being there looking cute and smiling helped some of the mourners cope with the funeral, or so they told us afterwards.

He's a bit older now and I wouldn't consider taking him to another funeral until he's in his teens because I think it would be too distressing.

I didn't attend either of my grandparents funerals, so the first one I attended was my father's when I was a teenager. Bloody awful seeing my mother and older siblings so distraught. My mums funeral wasn't much better but at least I was a bit older.

I've been to many funerals and find them all quite harrowing and given the choice, I'd happily choose not to attend any in the future. Unfortunately other folk expect/guilt trip you into attending. :-/

I'm happy to remember people in a way that suits me and I don't need to attend a formal funeral to deal with my grief.

I really like the OP's idea of having a special family occasion to remember DGF. In her shoes, I'd do exactly the same thing.

[sixlive]

I was taken to a couple of funerals when under 10. I think it did harm me I was very upset and bewildered that so many of the people I loved were crying and very upset. Funerals can be long and boring for kids at best and harmful at worst. I think people want kids to come for their own adult needs rather than the kids needs. My overwhelming memory of my grandfather over 40 years ago was the funeral.