Viruses are good for you

[Edenviolet]

Apparently....

Took ds1 and 2 to gp today. Ds1 for the second time in four weeks and ds2 for the sixth time in four weeks.

Both have had temperatures, coughs, sore throats and earache and have had calpol and nurofen daily for four weeks and still have temperatures. I think they need antibiotics but gp said no then told me that "viruses are good for them, the more they get the stronger their immune system will be"

Utter rubbish.

Viruses are Not good for you. Dd2 got "just a virus" last year and ended up seriously unwell and with diabetes because of it. I am really annoyed that they keep dismissing us and say things like this when in fact viruses can actually cause a lot of harm

[Edenviolet]

Can't for the life of me remember why its not meant to be a good idea to use a cold flannel, there was a reason but i ust can't remember.

[lilyaldrin]

Damp cool/lukewarm flannel on the forehead is fine - washing them down with cold water or putting in a cold bath isn't.

[nocheeseinhouse]

Antibiotics don't work for viral infections. Most bacterial infections don't need antibiotics. Doctor's don't give antibiotics to make your sore throat go faster, they give them to prevent complications (eg. Quinsy.) So, they listen to your symptoms, examine you, and tot up a)the likelihood of it being viral vs bacterial, and then, the likelihood of progression to a serious complication, including the 'number needed to treat' in their thoughts. They then weigh up the risk/benefits of giving antibiotics, and if it's very unlikely to benefit, they won't risk the risks, and won't give it to you.

Wouldn't it be quicker and easier for the doctor if we walk in saying 'ear!' 'chest!' and he just handed over a script, no work. No, most doctors decide to actually do a good job, not to make their lives easier, but to better care for you!

Sadly, no doctor has access to the magic cold pills that will ensure you are better for Christmas that they are keeping hidden until you explain why you really need the magic pills and are a special case.

Temperatures are now thought to help the body fight infection, so that's why the new guidelines say only give calpol etc for pain, not for fever.

[QuintessentialShadows]

This is one thing that really annoy me about the UK.

In Norway every single gp has a nurse, who does blood test. CRP to test for infection

This way they can detect whether it is a virus or an infection, and prescribe antibiotics accordingly.

If your crp is fine, there is no way you can walk out of a gp with a prescription for antibiotics.

[JohnnyBarthes]

Being ill can put you at risk of developing diabetes. My grandmother suffered it post-operatively; OP's not being at all U in that respect.

[cjel]

Thanks Lily, I didn't think my DS would let me do it to his dcs if it wasn't right!!!

[nocheeseinhouse]

The CRP goes up in a viral infection. Doctors call it the CRaP for a reason. It goes up in anything.

I've traveled to places where you can buy all sorts over the counter. I'm glad that isn't the case here.

Our doctors make extra work for themselves, trying to practice good medicine. It would be quicker, easier (and probably cheaper given many antibiotics are cheap as chips) to leave a bucket outside the room saying 'help yourselves.' They don't do that, and the reason they don't do that is not because they're power-crazed and like to see you suffering from your viral illness!

[Knit2togtbl]

Umm- just a thought, and it's probably way off, but have you had your boiler checked? Low grade carbon monoxide poisoning can mimic flu symptoms.
A friend of mine who's a vet saw a client whose hamsters both died suddenly. She asked them if anyone had been ill recently, and both the children had suffered headaches and flu type symptoms, It was the boiler, and the hamsters had been the early warning system.
www.modernmedicine.com/modern-medicine/news/modernmedicine/modern-medicine-now/co-poisoning-symptoms-mimic-those-flu

[Edenviolet]

Our boiler has actually been broken recently and finally got fixed on Monday, it just kept turning off and we have a cm alarm so it wasn't anything like that. I hope.

[QuintessentialShadows]

Which is why reading a CRP is a skill too, and they would not give antibiotics if it was just slightly raised. It will have to be significantly raised.

[BerylStreep]

We have a friend who as a teenager was admitted to hospital for a ruptured appendix, and woke up with type 1 diabetes.

[nocheeseinhouse]

CRP is a non-specific test. I doubt anyone would use it alone as a risk stratification tool, I believe you have misunderstood. A full blood count, with a differential white cell count could significantly help risk stratify, but again, I doubt the NHS could afford an FBC on every illness through the door, and it would be a cruel unnecessary invasive test in young kids when clinical decisions can be made.

If everyone with a sore throat had a CRP here, the NHS would be bust(-er than it is with mum's getting calpol on prescription when you can buy it in Home Bargains.)

[whatever5]

Viruses have not been proved to cause autoimmune diseases. Viruses can trigger them off but people are usually susceptible to them anyway. There is no known cause of most autoimmune diseases yet.

They may susceptible to the autoimmune disease, but if they don't get the trigger (probably virus) they won't get the disease. One of my friend's identical twin is disabled from an autoimmune disease (since childhood). My friend is not affected at all despite having the same genes and presumably being just as susceptible.

[Iamsparklyknickers]

On the Carbon Monoxide - don't forget to have an alarm by things like ovens if they're gas (obviously!).

Recently met a woman who only found out her oven was leaking when a nurse tested her with those smoking meter things and commented on her non-existent smoking habit because of her Co2 levels (think Co2 is right).

It was a standard part of some physical test iirc - she'd cleaned the oven that morning.

[nocheeseinhouse]

Antibiotics will not stop you getting complications from viruses. We have some anti-virals for select situations (encephalitis etc), but we cannot cure a cold. If your diabetes is going to be caused by a viral insult on top of your genetic predisposition, IF, then a course of amoxil won't change that.

[MadAsFish]

Viruses are never good for you. At best they don't do much harm.

Actually yes they do, they teach your immune system what to attack (sort of).
Regular exposure to a variety of virii and microbes is what assists the immune system not to develop allergies.

[noblegiraffe]

What's this about new guidelines saying don't give calpol for a fever? The NHS website still says it. It says it might not be necessary if they aren't bothered by the fever but it doesn't say don't give it at all.

[QuintessentialShadows]

I guess it is a question of deciding what to budget for. Here you have to pay a £20 fee to see your gp (free for children under 18 and pregnant women). You pay for prescriptions even for childrens medicine, unless you have a long term illness, like cancer for example.

But, you get time, and various blood tests straight away, which often mean a trip to the doctor can mean consultation, blood tests/other tests, back to the doctor again for a diagnosis. Some times more tests, or a referral on.

[lilyaldrin]

It's the NICE guidelines noblegiraffe - painkillers should be used for pain/distress, but not with the sole aim of reducing body temperature as it doesn't prevent febrile convulsions.

[notundermyfoof]

Wow this thread has enlightened me, I had no idea diabetes could be caused by a virus!

I hope your dcs are feeling better very soon op

[Theodorous]

Calling the op an idiot is vile. The NHS is terrible, anywhere else they would have listened to you. Why can't they do a quick blood test? Cheap and easy. I would pay and get an opinion that is is not a fob off to save money.

[Theodorous]

Better than depending on the Googler Mn experts anyway

[MrsMook]

I've just had a stonking cold/ cough that's laid me low for a couple of weeks. I was on ABs for another issue when I caught it.

Why not try some vitamin supplements to give them a boost when they're run down. I've just started taking Floradix to boost iron, C and B vitamins. It's also suitable for young children.

"Viruses are good for you" is a daft statement, but there's not much the Dr can do anyway.

[larrygrylls]

I would think that with a child who has been ill for more than a week to 10 days, it would be sensible to do a full blood count. OP, you are being a little inconsistent in saying viruses can be pretty bad (which I agree with) and also saying you can tell whether your child has a virus or bacterial infection. With antibiotics, there is a compromise to be made. They cannot be prescribed like sweets. On the other hand, if one had a persistent febrile illness, it seems sensible to prescribe antibiotics, both in case the infection is bacterial and to cover against an opportunistic bacterial infection.

I do think, though, that nhs docs are overly wary of tests, how often do infections drag on past 10 days? Hardly ever. At that point, proper blood tests are indicated.

[Weegiemum]

The viral trigger thing is very interesting. Two years ago I had viral labyrinthitis (ears!) which made me very dizzy. It initially got better but a couple of weeks later the symptoms returned along with numbness in my hands, feet and lower face - I couldn't walk, get out of bed. I was eventually diagnosed with a very rare neurological condition. My consultant explained that my immune system had gone into overdrive and attacked the nerves, which have a protein coating similar to a virus. I'm now permanently disabled, though I have made significant improvements via physio and occupational therapy and a monthly drip which supports the immune response.

I hope, OP, that your dc get better soon.