AIBU to ask you to watch this video about Operation Christmas Child?

[exexpat]

Operation Christmas Child touches Nepal

We are approaching the final week of this year's Operation Christmas Child programme, which asks people to donate shoeboxes full of gifts for a needy child overseas. Many schools promote it as a nice way for all children, whatever their religion or lack of it, to do something for others at Christmas.

What schools often do not tell parents (because they do not realise themselves) is that Operation Christmas Child is a highly evangelical programme, run by American fundamentalists, which uses shoeboxes as a way to lure small children into the church.

However, the video above - from the website of the OCC parent organisation, Samaritan's Purse - makes it abundantly clear exactly what they are doing, and what they think of other religions (Hinduism = darkness from which children must be saved by missionaries bearing shoeboxes).

Parents may also be interested to hear that Samaritan's Purse is run by Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham; he is best buddies with George Bush and Sarah Palin, describes Islam as evil, diverts the 'international relief' charity's funds to support the campaign against same-sex marriage in the US, promotes abstinence-only sex education in areas with a high HIV rate, and lots of other unsavoury things.

If your school promotes Operation Christmas Child, and they have not told you about the evangelical nature of the programme, please suggest the head teacher watches that video clip and has a good look round the Samaritan's Purse website.

(My apologies for yet another Operation Christmas Child thread, but this is the first one I have ever started, because I think that video deserves a wider audience)

[MrsWembley]

Sorry, haven't had a chance to RTF, but I've spoken to DD's head today and I think it was a worthwhile, if slightly nerve-wracking, thing to do. I advise anyone who feels even a little uncomfortable about it all to talk to their DC's school.

[EduCated]

Steppmum It really is a shame that there's such a bad press associated with Christian/religious aid workers. There are so many charities with a religious background/basis/element that do fantastic work, often with very little recognition. Which makes me all the crosser at OCC and their seemingly underhand tactics

[steppemum]

well, I very rarely comment on OCC threads any more, as the debate gets so long and complicated, but seeing as how I was referenced upthread (my kids came home with them), and I haven't been on an OCC thread for a while, I will!

We used to live in Central Asia. OCC distributes boxes throughout the country we lived in.

While I don't disagree with the thrust of this thread (we don't fill or give OCC boxes) I think it is helpful to understand what actually goes on on the ground, so people can make informed decisions.

The boxes are distributed through the local church. No American Evangalists anywhere, all local people. The boxes were given out freely through the community. The children were usually invited to a party at church, this was a genuine party, with games and special food etc. The party included a Bible story - usually the Christmas story. The boxes were given to all children as they went home. There was no literature in the boxes - they would not be allowed to be imported if they had. They were also used as gifts to families and neighbours in the community, no need to come to a party. There was no requirement to come to any Bible studies etc, and I don't remember them even offering them.

Because they were distributed by local people, I think the whole balance of power thing is different, local families know each other, they know that these people are Christian and go to church and so when invited to a party at a church, assume that there will be something Christian there. Most choose to go, not really to get a gift, but mostly to go to their neighbour's party, that is how the community works.

The boxes were given to any children, not just poor ones. At the New Year Party all the church kids got given a box too, so our kids came home with one every New Year's Eve. We felt guilty about getting what had been packed for poor kids, but it was hardly fair on ours to say they couldn't get one, so we let them choose something out of the box, and the rest we gave away to kids who needed it.

And the last point is that this whole idea of ''Christmas present'' is just a British/American/Australian thing.
My dh is dutch, they don't do Christmas presents, local Christians where we were in Central Asia, didn't do presents, many Christians round the world don't do presents. It is a marketing ploy for the West. They were never given out at Christmas. Often at New Year (when gifts are given) often later, so no child is ''missing out on a present this Christmas'' as no-one get them.

I would like to make one point though, despite my dislike of OCC, it makes me sad that Christians working over seas get such a bad press. All round the world there are literally thousands of Christians who are overseas doing charity work because of their faith, because they believe it is the right thing to do. Most of them are open about what they believe, but are getting on with the job (nurses, doctors, English teaches, workers in orphanages etc) They are there primarily to serve. Without them, the NGO would be decimated.

[exexpat]

Same here. But this year's OCC appeal is nearly over, so maybe we can forget about it until next year - when I will be very interested to see if Brian comes good on his promises of total transparency etc. I'm afraid I'm not charitable enough to not have serious doubts about that.

[EduCated]

More charitable than me But it was established I'm one of the people who's a bit mean up thread, so the cap fits!

Slowly running out of energy for these threads.

[exexpat]

To be charitable, I will try to assume that Kytti is a St John Ambulance supporter who was woken up far too early this morning by a fractious baby or something and didn't read your post properly, as she very obviously misunderstood it. But yes, there was no need to be so rude...

[EduCated]

Still somewhat bemused at being declared a 'stupid person'. Are you always so rude, Kytti?

[SuburbanRhonda]

Christhesheep - you will!

At least then you will be informed about the organisation, which is what this and other threads are all about, despite what some might have you think.

[ChrisTheSheep]

Good grief, that's an awful video, and evidently an awful organisation. I'm very relieved DS is too small for school so we haven't encountered OCC before.

[sashh]

you know Exactly what op cc Will do. Give presents and give re lessons. something our kids have in school every week. you really are other thinking this.

Well you obviously don't. They mention child trafficking but they don't say they are attempting to do anything to stop it. Watch the video again.


They are not giving RE lessons, they are telling the children one minority Christian view is true. They are not teaching them about religion, they are evangelising.

I have no problem with children getting gifts or with them learning about different religions.

oh no , not a Christian organisation? that sounds terrible- they er blow up buildings don't they?

Yes they do. Have you forgotten what went on in what used to be Yugoslavia?

make people miserable by forcing them to be be Christians, er no ?
Is bribery any better? Look you have been brought up as a Hindu as were your ancestors. But come to church and we will give you toys and explain that your parents are wrong.

They lock people in cupboards and chop their heads off, no ?
Well I went to a faith school and locking in cupboards was not unknown. OK no one was beheaded, beaten but not beheaded. In the name of Christianity.


the vast majority have their religion as an impetus to choose to help people less fortunate than themselves. But they believe that is by converting them, not by stopping trafficking, providing education, providing sanitation or anything practical.

You are trying to make ordinary people sound like cultish terrorists. you don't like them, fine . you don't agree or believe in their religion , fine . Just leave others to make their own minds up.

They are a cult. They con a lot of people in to giving toys, unconditionally, which are then turned into tools for evangelism.

They have also arranged for Bibles to be handed out at gunpoint.

Have a look at what they hand out. Take note of the last page where the child fills in their name and becomes 'God's child'.

9d524212-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/occalert/Home/MostImportantStory.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cqCWhm3oYGsVS4G3PGkLvHOcdnnb4oR5Vwyiyy5Rr4j7V0dKM0GcugOCXX_A-2gFoizyyruPp9ufMlm7Ym4FX8QRSby21PFvE2RprZav88tcjd4IvKmVuBTSnKxAH3hxV2lhmkfjxor8ydKruDpVLLGKxtefzYqnf5Rk4MdGTSZZGn1ElklVKbtRjswgwXTruSHhICUKFQtJ5yC17lxkXTZPsZJwAr9jGTMBj-ji_w00DJjjaM%3D&attredirects=0

No I don't agree with their religion, but that is not my problem with them. I don't agree with the local church that has a food bank but I am happy for them to run a food bank because it is useful and does help people.

The same with the Salvation Army, I don't follow their faith, but I know they give out food to homeless people and do a lot of good.

I don't agree with the religion of the people who run the temple down the road, but they also feed people who need to be fed.

Just because I disagree with a religion's beliefs does not mean I cannot see that some do good things, SP do not do good things.

[ebayauctivahelp]

SuburbanRhona yes you're right. It was/is so brazen. I hate this segregation of charity. I imagine that there are Hindu families and Muslim families that would donate to this charity completely ignorant of it's evangelical intent. If any school opts into this shoebox giving they should have to make the point loud and clear that their donations will be used as the primary "tool" for evangelising about Jesus Christ.

I live in a big city and we seem to have an alarming number of "missionaries" coming to get Jesus in our lives. They're usually from America and they too talk about bringing light into the "darkness". There are some piss-poor areas of this City with major social deprivation but funnily enough these missionaries tend to reside in the swankier parts of town in houses that are beyond the budget of 90% of the other parents on the playground. I assume that their "church" funds these lavish homes.

It's the breathtaking, righteous arrogance that gets me.

[SuburbanRhonda]

Bump

[EduCated]

Kytti Yeah I'm so thick, using it as an example of a charity that has religious origins and religious connotations, but is not in fact religious in its day to day work to illustrate a point. Stupid stupid me

Was that really necessary, even if I was wrong?

[SuburbanRhonda]

ebay, for me what was remarkable about the Nepal video was not the repugnant views expressed by the smiley, shiney, all-American talking head on the video, but the fact that they put the video on YouTube.

So either they are completely naive about how bigoted that would make them look, or they have so much support on the US, they can be as offensive as they wish and it still won't cause a ripple over there. As exexpat says, it's probably the latter, which is very disheartening.

I do wonder what the organisers of OCC would have to say to a Hindu family who decided to donate a shoebox

[ThatsYouThatIs]

Kytti, The St. John Ambulance Service may not be religious itself, but it is a charitable subsidiary of the Order of St. John, which is mainly Protestant. It accepts Catholic members but those of other religions can only become honorary members.

So, not quite as simple as saying it's not religious.

Oh, and please don't call people stupid.

[Kytti]

EduCated The St. John Ambulance Service (NOT ST JOHNS) is not religious. Stupid person.

[ThatsYouThatIs]

Bump

[Coupon]

There have always been some people who do negative things MadAsFish, from any religion or none. The real reasons are usually greed, territory, selfishness, competition etc.

If there was no religion the same people would just find some other cover or supposed "reason" for their fighting and discrimination.

[ebayauctivahelp]

That's pretty repulsive. That beautiful country with its magnificent temples and ancient Buddhist and Hindu culture and art and all those evangelical w**ers see is a chance to get Jesus Christ in there to take away the "darkness"?! So you have a child from a family with hundreds of years of history of Hindu/Buddhist beliefs getting bribed by a soft toy and a few felt pens to turn to Jesus. And that does what? Provides clean water? Vaccination programmes? Sanitation? Education?

It's despicable. And it's horrible because the kids are genuinely happy with their gifts and they are obviously told that the gifts are from Jesus. Look what Jesus gets you. A soft toy that was probably flattened and dug into the ground when the bulldozers came and flattened your slum.

After years of Maoist terrorism they get these smiley-faced evangelicals turning up in their villages. Great. The Nepalese people deserve so much better.

[BillyBanter]

Maybe she's confused with muggles. Harry's aunt and uncle kept him in a cupboard didn't they? did they chop heads off as well?

[MadAsFish]

oh no , not a Christian organisation? that sounds terrible- they er blow up buildings don't they? no ? make people miserable by forcing them to be be Christians, er no ? They lock people in cupboards and chop their heads off, no ?

Christianity has certainly had its moments doing all of the above (except the lock in cupboards and chop heads off - who does that? Chop heads off, yes, I think all the abrahamic religions have had a go at that, but locking people in a cupboard then doing it...never heard of that one).
You need to read up on some of the finer moments of both the crusades and the inquisition.
Some of the things done in its name now aren't so wonderful, either.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

I'll do that exex. I was trying to compose an email, but didn't really know what to say .

That's interesting sauce, hopefully they're a bit more 'love to everyone' than the others. I don't want to support them if they're like OCC, but the DC's are keen to do the shoebox thing.

[Coupon]

An interesting contrast is the Christian Aid info and video here

[SuburbanRhonda]

saint, I agree, and the SP representative who came on here described the shoe-box giving event as being one of noise and excitement - who would feel able to refuse anything offered to them under those pressured conditions?

[saintmerryweather]

the thing about saying that children dont have to take religious literature is that some of these children are as young as 4. how on earth would they manage to refuse what theyre being given when it comes with a present?